Comments on: Too Many Hoops to Jump Through: Pre-Marital Counseling, Ellen, and Gay Dudes

By: keshia

keshia — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:36:39 +0000

amen the word of God says lay hands suddenly on on no man 1 Timothy 5:22 we have to allow God to do a work in them and deliver them and then guide the leader the to put them in a position in God's appointed time. Being like a city set on a hill that cannot be moved is living a holy life that is pleasing to God The word of God says in matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

By: keshia

keshia — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:17:39 +0000

You are right the word of God says we are to worship God in spirit and in truth john 4:24 when we work in a position for God we must be qualified in 1 samuel God qualifed samuel in romans 8:28 it tells us we must be called by God we cant get in a position because we want it.

By: EL D

EL D — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:13:49 +0000

Part 2…
liars, recieve the coveters, etc…but don't put them in a position of ministry…You minister to those spirits…Don't let those spirits minister to you…Ushering is ministry…Singing is ministry…Please be mindful of what goes before God's people…Everything is spiritual…Don't be fooled by the appearance of something that doesn't seem to be doing any harm…I have gay friends…and while I love them with everything in me, my prayer above all things is that they be saved, not seperated from God by sin (even one) that they refuse to repent of…I try to love them to life. I love them but they are aware I don't love that spirit of homosexuality that is a stronghold in their lives. And yes…it's a spirit…Which is why I can love them and rebuke the work of the devil in them.

By: EL D

EL D — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:13:11 +0000

Part 1…
I don't dispute the word…It says don't make it difficult for new believers to come to Christ…but it also tells us not to be quick to put new converts in a position of authority…The word sets standards for those in leadership positions…Anyone living a life of habitual sin…gay or straight…with no desire to disagree with that sin…should be removed from a position of authority…My prayer is that before they were put in that position, the pastor did not rush to judgement and that the person was found qualified in the first place. Read all of 1 Tim 3… Here's an excerpt….1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
The Word sets the expectations for leaders…and the standard is higher than the new convert….
So yes…recieve the sexually immoral(gay, fornicators, adulterers, etc), recieve the

By: Sara

Sara — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:40:48 +0000

Unfortunately – yeah, they can. You guys are really not talking about the REAL elephant in the room. I challenge you to bring it up Shaun.

A gay person comes to church, comes to Christ – or believes it anyway (Whatever you want to call it – Christ is their confession). Do you consider them a "Sinner" still? If their attraction does not change with programs, workbooks, prayer sessions, fasting, therapy – are THEY the failure? How can they still be considered "Ineligible"? I doubt anyone in your church would know WHY God didn't answer their prayers to "Stop feeling this way". So they're waiting for a divine powerful encounter but they can't MAKE that happen. So when do they stop being the "Sinner we are showing Grace" and start being the "Brother in Christ eligible for praying with people and leading"?

HUH?

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:38:45 +0000

"Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, "

That (and 1 Thessalonians 4) pretty much cover it. Any kind of sexual immorality needs to be repented of. Let the person hear the good news and respond to it… and then let them be discipled by someone in the Body who will tell them that sexual immorality is not to be named among us– that we are called to be holy. 1 Corinthians 6 says that those who practice sexual immorality (among other sins) will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. It also says, "And such WERE some of you… (not ARE some of you). God loves it when His children pursue righteousness (sanctification) even though we are positionally given that gift by the Lord. I have heard that truth without love kills. I have also heard that mercy without truth seduces– and that is another way to kill another person, Proverbs says.
Let the sexually immoral be discipled by someone who will help them turn from all sexual immorality.
That is part of the requirements Gentile believers were given in the above passage in Acts.

By: christiaan

christiaan — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:22:57 +0000

I couldn't agree more, Shaun. Grace is messy. I kinda like that! Well said!

By: Ronda

Ronda — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:19:56 +0000

We can't keep trying to get around things on a technicality. Technically, God didn't tell Eve not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he just told Adam. But they were both considered sinners, and they were both punished. And yet we sin "on a technicality" every day. "Where EXACTLY does God say that homosexuality is wrong? Well, when He said it was wrong in that scripture, he was referring to sexual behavior and not sexual orientation. 1 Corinthians is unclear…" etc. etc. It's all trying to justify sin by putting the blame on God for not being "clear," when the reality is, just as with Eve, we will be called to account for our sins whether we thought we got away with them or not.

By: Ronda

Ronda — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:19:39 +0000

This article is problematic for several reasons – first, it negates parts of the old testament on the basis of others not being followed. Pointing to other scriptures that are not followed does not make homosexuality acceptable. Second, it talks about homosexuality from the perspective of man's opinion, when in Leviticus it is clearly God condemning it. Third, 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 ARE clear; they just don't support this author's position, which is why he wants to "put these texts to the side." Fourth, the bible doesn't make a distinction between "sexual orientation" and "sexual behavior." We're making distinctions where they shouldn't exist. Finally, the scriptures in 1 Corinthians and Luke 12 are talking about legal disputes (if you read them in context – i.e. the scriptures before and after the ones he picked out to prove his point). They're not talking about picking and choosing which of God's laws you want to follow based on what you think is right.

By: Ronda

Ronda — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:49:28 +0000

Part II to above post –
Same goes for other sins – there are people who are in the music ministry and other ministries at our church who have gone through different issues and are working on their issues (whether it was drug addiction, alcoholism, etc.) but for someone to say "I'm a drug addict, I'm not going to change, and I want to be in a leadership position" that wouldn't be okay.

In regards to people living together and wanting to be married, I think the church should marry them immediately, and go through the pre/post marital counseling at the same time. It doesn't make sense to say "we require 10 pre-marital counseling sessions, which means it will be another 2 months before you can get married, so you need to move out." That's what I consider jumping through hoops. Putting time frames like a 6-month waiting period while you're not living together is definitely jumping through hoops.