I like Bill Maher. I’m a fan and have been for a long time. So I was a bit surprised when watching Religulous last night at his fundamental misunderstanding of the Bible. Bill is a pretty smart guy and the movie showed him making a lot of unintelligent people look dumb (which isn’t a feat at all). Bill would really benefit from a few private lessons from a caring and engaging theologian.
Bill made simple mistakes like saying that the Gospels were poorly written and incomplete biographies. If the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were intended to be biographies I would agree that they were incomplete, but the Gospels were not written to be exhaustive biographies, but persuasive summaries that focused on a small segment of the life of a man named Jesus.
Bill basically said that the Virgin Birth was not believable because it’s not included in all 4 Gospels. Just another simple error. It’s not like some Gospels dispute the Virgin Birth, they just don’t include details about it at all. The omission of the story does not make it less believable, but, in all fairness, if no one takes the time to explain this to Bill – how will he know?
You may be shocked at what I am about to say, but Bill spent a lot of time making the argument that the Bible is an utterly RIDICULOUS book, but I actually agree with him. Arguing that the Bible is not ridiculous is silly in my opinion.
Some far away Creator designing and creating the world is bananas!
Moses parting the Red Sea is insane!
David slaying a giant with a small rock and a sling shot is totally preposterous!
Jesus being raised from the dead is completely CRAZY!
I agree with all of these statements (and I am a Christian pastor). The thing is – the Bible IS an utterly ridiculous book and our faith is an utterly ridiculous faith.
I don’t believe it because it’s easy to believe. I don’t preach it because it all makes perfect sense. I don’t live how I live because I think the Bible should win the Pulitzer Prize.
It’s an ancient text. It often lacks style. It is full of gaps in time and substance (like 20 years of the life of Jesus), but I love the Bible (not in spite of) because of these things. The Bible wasn’t written like a legal case study arguing to win a lawsuit. If you view it as such you will be sorely disappointed.
It’s a faith document that requires faith to believe and faith to live.
The Bible is not a contemporary science book (as the Vatican astronomer so aptly described in Religulous) and was written before science was understood as we understand it today. When we try to critique the Bible because it doesn’t line up with our modern ideas of genetics, it’s really an apples & oranges situation that shouldn’t be argued. The Bible is not the guidebook to the Human Genome Project.
Here’s the thing – I won’t argue that the story isn’t ridiculous because it really is. I choose to believe it anyways for at least 10 key reasons that I will share over the next week or so. Hope you’ll follow the discussion!
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So well written. Hope it reaches many who saw the show. Perfect, concise answer to what they saw! Hope your entire weekend rocks for Jesus! (I know it will).
Bravo.
Shaun, thank you so much for this. It inspires a boldness in me that I don’t always have. Can’t wait to visit Courageous Church!
Great post Pastor Shaun,
Earlier this week I heard some of the statements made by Bill and I was not shocked at all. From a logic standpoint any of the points Bill made made sense. As you stated in your article we as people of faith cannot look to explain everything in the Bible from a logic stand point. The Bible explicitly states that the story of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. Bills statements are nothing more than an affirmation that he is a sad soul in need of a savior.
I thought the same thing when I watched the film. A lot of people got up in arms because it was "insulting" to Christians and Christianity. Well of course it was. But that's not surprising.
Maher picked easy targets (just because somebody is a Christ follower does not mean they are intelligent) and I agree with you in that I would love to see Maher discuss such issues with somebody like Chuck Swindoll or Lee Strobel.
Excellent article. I too, don't believe because it's believable. I believe because I have been chosen and captured by the Love of Jesus for me. Thank you for being so radicle and courageous.
This works. Thanks!
Maybe I'm alone here…but I believe the Bible because I have exhaustively examined its context, content, and claims, using rigorous logic, science, and various tests for validity. I have faith in the God of the Bible now that He's proven Himself to us, in large part through Scripture. I didn't come to the Bible with faith–that's begging the question–but rather I examined it and determined that this God was the One Who deserves all faith.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the whole point. But it doesn't make sense to say "the Bible is a faith document." It's a document and can be examined as stringently as any other. Only it stands up to the test as the inspired Word of God. It doesn't make sense to say you "don't believe because it's believable." I, for one, wouldn't want to believe something so unproven and ill-supported as to be "unbelievable."
Maybe all y'all are already assuming this "intellectual" side of things, and are just having a party for when God sometimes doesn't make sense to us?
What I absolutely love about my faith is that, at times, it makes no sense. To me, the Bible is an amazing text, and though my human mind can't comprehend it all, I find joy and comfort in knowing I am not called to know it all. The word tells us to not rely on our own understanding, and if we did, which Mr. Mayer is obviously calling people to do in this movie, we would fall in line with his assumptions.
I am proud to be a believer in an unbelievable God. Ridiculous as it may seem; He is real, He is miraculous, He is for me, and that's all I need to know.
Great topic, pastor!
I want to see religulous (sp?). But even though it isn't a scientific document, I think you can take what it says about science seriously.
Same applies to other topics.
Excellent piece….refreshing… many times Believers get caught in the rip tide of defending the Faith from an unbelievers perspective, which is totally ironic and fruitless
I would pay good money (make that – I would make a healthy donation to the fine ministries of Courageous Church) – if we could get a Celebrity Death Match of Bill Maher vs. Steven Colbert
I'll pour the drinks between rounds.
Your Church Bartender,
Michael Trent
@churchbartender
Great thoughts!
@aaronalexander
Truly the best double book review I've ever read. Looking forward to the future posts in this series.
Shalom!
not to nit – pick or sound like a hater, i would just warn against your choice of calling God's word Ridiculous. I agree with the point you are making but dont like the word choice. I quick googled the definition of ridiculous and found "laughable, utterly absurd, ect" I think "unbelievable" may be a better choice.
Calling the Bible ridiculous seems a little offensive to me but maybe I am being a bit conservative on this point…
anyways, looking forward to your next post
A "bit surprised" at his "fundamental misunderstanding of the Bible?" Really? A "bit surprised?" You didn't actually expect him to have approached a study of the Bible without bias, did you? Bill Mahr is an entertainer not a journalist, historian, scientist or anything else with even a modicum of impartiality. His purpose is to generate revenue for himself, the network, executive producers, production company and sponsors. Understanding that today's culture responds to controversy, inciting knee-jerk reactions and being offensive then would be "ridiculous" to expect Mr. Mahr to be anything except "inciteful" as opposed to "insightful." Truth and objectivity are not a remote part of his equation.
Having said that, I will agree that Mr. Mahr does provide valuable insight into the views those David Kinnaman describes as "outsiders" in his book "unChristian." I value Mr. Mahr's opinion and am often discouraged at his accurate impression of modern American Christianity.
As for the use of the word "ridiculous", I have to agree that, yes, the Bible is utterly ridiculous. Scripture says so itself in I Cor. 1:25. God's love for us is absolutely "laughable, utterly absurd, etc." And the love we have for even those that ridicule us should absolutely ridiculous, beyond explanation to the point of confounding them.
Just realized I continuously misspelled Bill Maher's name…what a n00b I am.
Those would be great conversations man. Wonder if he has met them?
Hey Jeffrey,
Thanks for your thoughtful response man.
Were you quoting me when you said "you don't believe because it's believable"?
I don't think I said that did I?
Did you use science and rigorous logic when thinking of Jonah living in a big fish for 3 days? How about Jesus being raised from the dead after 3 days? Moses parting the Red Sea?
Please respond to those 3 issues with the rubric you describe in paragraph 1 please. I think they are hard to believe. I believe them, but it isn't easy for me.
Thanks Danni!
What in the Bible about science do you take very seriously?
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT MAN!
I hear you Calvin! I mean to say that it seems ridiculous.
Sorry about the quote. I broke the rules and responded to my fellow commenter, Rob, on that one. I should have made that clearer.
Okay, the rubric I presented was to use my knowledge of logic, science, and textual criticism to examine the Bible's context and content (specifically, its claims). Those tools apply to the Bible as a whole. The Bible's central claim is that God exists, and that He is as He is described within Scripture. Through my studies, I have concluded that this claim stands up to "my rubric." However, I didn't propose these criteria as universal. (For instance, I won't examine poetic hyperbole in the Psalms the same way I'd examine the historical claim that Paul went to Macedonia.)
But to answer your questions more pointedly: science does not rule out the possibility of a man surviving in the air-filled portion of a non-carnivorous fish's gastrointestinal cavity. Science does not rule out resurrection, nor does it disprove the parting of the Red Sea, or the Jordan, or even a floating axe-head. Science cannot prove a universal negative. Science does say that these occurrences are extraordinary, if they are true at all. Therefore, rather than precluding the possibility of these events, science compels us either to find extraordinary evidence for them, or to reject them as true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary support. In my opinion, the Bible itself (by many evidences, proofs, and corroborations which I'm sure I don't have to tell you about–not to mention the ministry of the Holy Spirit) supplies ample extraordinary reasons to believe these extraordinary things.
As for logic, these events are not logically problematic. There is no logical principle that they violate, other than that their unusual nature requires more careful examination. Furthermore, they are consistent with the Bible's entire system of claims about God, us, and the world; so there is no internal contradiction in logic, either.
As a concession, I will tell you that yes, to someone who is biased against God's existence and interference in our lives (read: any lost person) or to someone who just doesn't care to examine the evidence carefully, belief in these things can be written off as mere faith claims. My comment above assumes that I'm not talking to people like that.
On the other hand, you may be surprised that I agree with you when you say "I think they are hard to believe." Certainly they are. That's what I mean by "extraordinary." But your post said that they were part of a "faith document that requires faith to believe." That's a different matter entirely, and that is where I disagree. Like I said before, if the document didn't hold up to scrutiny, I'd have poor reasons to believe its outrageous claims. (Thank God that isn't the case.) I simply think the Bible's a bit more well-supported than a document that requires you to believe it by faith before you even read and examine it, or "choose to believe" in the face of contradiction.
Hey Jeffrey!
Awesome insight man. Really. Thank you for taking the time to state your claim. I really don't think we disagree on much.
Here is the premise that I work from when I am telling people how I believe such incredible things….
If we can agree that some intelligent designer created and produced this world, why is it really so hard to believe that this same God is incapable of doing some other VERY AMAZING things.
Keep doing what you do bro.
Your Friend,
Shaun
You're cool, Shaun. I knew that we disagreed more on how to say things than on what was said. You know, I really enjoy reading your blog and your Tweets mostly because I don't always agree with you, but know that you're a solid brother in Christ.
Now you keep doing what you do. :)
I think Bill Maher is truly indicative of our post modern culture. His job is to question any and everything. I think too often a Christians response to a Bill Maher is too rigid and stuck in the ideals of modernity: when life was rational and was very black and white. For Bill Maher, the blanket following, or faith, that Christians profess is counter-culture to his mindset. So, when you average joe-blow Christian responds to Bill Maher, he’s going to probably dismiss them because of his self-assessed bad logic on behalf of the Christian.
Fact of the matter, the solo nature of Christianity being the ONLY way to the God-head doesn’t work for Bill Maher and a growing number of postmoderns and their idea of plurality of many ideas.
I actually think Shaun’s response is about the best one can give without compromising the core religious beliefs of Christianity.
What I struggle with personally is the lack of discussion concerning these “core” beliefs within Christianity. Dealing with non-Christians is one thing, but as far as dealing within the community of self-professed Christians I do have some questions: Do we believe what we believe purely and simply because the Bible says it? Which leads me to ask, how does one know that they have received the proper interpretation of various scriptures? Moreover, how does one go about the process of picking which scriptures to interpret literally and which ones receive a metaphorical interpretation? As a result of said belief in scriptures, to what level to we allow our Chrisitan beliefs dictate our daily lives and interactions? Ultimately, for me, does not the idea of Christianity pre-suppose an us vs. them dichotomy that requires non Christians to submit to a core belief system in order to be inducted into this set apart, or dare say, “sanctified” group of people?
When Christians fail to adequately deal with questions such as those from within the group, we most certainly will fail with making someone like a Bill Maher believe the same thing which we do. Too often, I think, we run from those questions and in the process, we run from our faith: how can your faith really be a faith if its never challenged?
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness, but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
I Corinthians 1:18-19
Pastor King, once again a brilliant post, brilliant not because you cleverly spoke with "excellency of speech," but rather your words were brilliant in that their radiance chased away darkness. In the present age, the faith encounters relentless assaults from our own reason and rationality. Reason presupposes that through a process of logic we may think, understand and explain the world in which we live; faith merely challenges us to believe. That is why God says He will destroy the "wisdom of the wise" and "bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." God wants us to believe Him, to take Him at His Word so to speak. I absolutely loved where you wrote, "I love the Bible (not in spite of) because of these things." The Word itself informs us that the gospels are not the "exhaustive biographies" we desire them to be (John 16:12, 21:25). The gaping holes in the text offer an opportunity for us to insert our belief in God, and trust the "author and finisher of our faith." In the course of my studies, I have encountered scores of articles, films and books deriding our faith for its incredulous nature and rampant contradictions (it's "ridiculousness" as you said). When I encountered questions for which my intellect could not fully explain, I rested in the truth that I have met God. In that "eureka" moment, I took solace in that knowledge. I know God. I have seen the power of God move in the earth unquestionably. This would prove sufficient for me. I look forward to reading more of this discussion. Be blessed.
and the devil shall deceive many… everyone who puts stalk in the bible who proclaims it the ultimate word of god.. are the many who are deceived.. you don't even begin to see it even if it is written in the bible.. for instance the bible itself says… do not pray out in the open as the hypocrites do.. how many of you pray out in the open,,,, hypocrites… ???? there are many many many warniing such as this in the bible but the christians are so blind to reason they are easily deceived… Gypsy
Bravo Shaun!
My church once did a comparison of world religions using interviews from some of the top clerics in each religion. They had Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity. The one thing I came away from that discussion with was that the only one that didn't make sense to me was Christianity. All the others seemed like something I could come up with. Basically they all boiled down to: Do Good equals good outcome, Do bad equals bad outcome. Christianity didn't make sense to me.
Christianity is a religion where Mother Teresa and Jeffery Daumer can be on equal standing. That doesn't sit right with me as a human. I wouldn't have done it that way. I want good people to have good outcomes and bad people to pay. I want Justice.
The God of the bible is about grace and grace doesn't make sense. When I look at all the major religions comparatively Christianity is the only one that doesn't make sense to me in my human nature. So there is part of me that wants to put all my hope and faith into Jesus because it is the only one i wouldn't come up with. That leads me to believe it has to be from the one true God. No human would come up with grace. Only the one true God could come up with grace.
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