Comments on: Fostering (Real) Diversity is Harder than I Thought

By: bln

bln — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:10:04 +0000

Come on out to California and you will see that diversity is not just black/white. The church I attend is about 60% Hispanic (though not Spanish-speaking; our drummer is an English-speaking Hispanic), with whites, blacks and others making up the rest. Our pastor is black, and most seem from the working-class neighborhood, so the economic and cultural diversity may be less than the racial diversity.

One interesting thing is that there are several interracial families attending. Perhaps they find this church a place to fit in?

By: klreed189

klreed189 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:08:11 +0000

I don't want to start a war here, but white christians are some of the most racist people out there.
We (I am white and throw myself in this at times because I am capable of this) put Jesus in the image of ourselves and expect others to look like that as well.
Derek Webb has a great line about this:
"Who's your brother, who's your sister
You just walked passed him
I think you missed her
As we're all migrating to the place where our father lives
'Cause we married in to a family of immigrants…
There are two great lies that I've heard:
"the day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die"
And that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class republican
And if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him….
-Derek Webb King and a Kingdom

I don't think this was the direction or statement you were trying to make here Larry, but I feel like the view of Jesus or how we picture him can cause great problems as well.

By: klreed189

klreed189 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:02:14 +0000

I think you have a good point here. What bothers me is that like Shaun said, Heaved will be one of the most diverse places and yet it will not be diverse because we are all brothers and sisters which goes way beyond race, gender, etc….
What will unite us is worship with God (making an obvious point here) and will break down the walls of "diversity in churches"
I just feel like there is this elephant in the room when it comes to diversity and I think you are pointing to that fat elephant standing in the corner by saying talking about how we are more drawn to our cultural division.

By: the uppity negro

the uppity negro — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:02:52 +0000

These are some interesting comments.

So is it that some whites have a problem being pastored by a black minister?

I think there's a cultural, and class reason why you hear different types of messages from the pulpits of black and white churches respectively. The concerns that affect an all black congregation don't affect a church in an all white community. And I as I said, I'm sure much of the difference is class and economic. Honestly, why would a preacher in an all white suburban church speak about God and finances when the mean income for the church is well over $100K. But at a church in an all black neighborhood, there stands a good chance that you have a substantial portion of the membership making $40K or less.

In turn, what does it say about the blacks that attend a white church, or a multi-racial church?

By: Rich

Rich — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:16:47 +0000

Check out racial reconciliation resources at www.thenewculture.org Press on!

By: Stephanie

Stephanie — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:59:56 +0000

Hi Larry!__Your statement "Most white Christians have no issue with the color of Jesus' skin," could be based on the fact that Jesus has been portrayed in the mainstream as looking European. Many ethnic minorities have also accepted this vision. It would be easy for White Christians to have "no issue" w/ Jesus' color since that is the "common" image for Him. __Your statement "..most black ministers is that they choose to focus more on fighting racial discrimination than they do showing the community the grace and mercy offered by Christ" is not only exaggerated, but it seems you judge it from a unique perspective. Ethnic minorities who experience racial discrimination and live in an environment they perceive to be oppressive, may experience self -loathing, hardened hearts, and a spirit of fear and hopelessness among others. For black ministers to overlook these experiences would be insensitive and unrealistic. Contrary to your statement, when discussing discrimination, black ministers discuss Christ's unconditional love and His celebration of our differences. Black ministers also encourage living victorious lives regardless of circumstances b/c God is above it all.

By: Kem

Kem — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:42:37 +0000

I think looking for a sort of "outward" appearance of diversity is asking for a lot. I know you aren't going to turn away any followers, because we have met the quota for a particular race/subgroup. Based on the conversations that I have had with a lot of the people who come to Courageous, we are indeed diverse. We come from different places, have had different upbringings, we have a different talents and abilities etc. If we eliminate the "skin factor" meaning of diversity, we can really see how diverse we are. In Sunday's message, you asked for people to raise their hands if they were from Atlanta: there were only 2 people. I say that IS diversity in the church :)

By: Colette Walker

Colette Walker — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:48:39 +0000

Korin I think you raise an excellent point about diversity not being the same thing as inter-racial, inter-cultural, inter-socio-ecomonic relationships, which I would hope would be a goal of the church. Building solid relationships, 1st with God and than with each other, rather than us just "looking the part." If you have different types of people in a congregation but those people have almost no relationship with each other, outside of they have the same pastor, is that really diversity? Or is that just tokenism on a large scale? If you have a wide range of music, worship, and preaching styles, but the pastor and leadership are the only ones who interact often and personally with different people is that diversity? This speaks to the example you gave about members fleeing when the pastor changed. My pastor often says sheep beget sheep, not shepherds.

By: Charles

Charles — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:41:10 +0000

Diversity always sounds good but as you mentioned is hard to foster an authentic diverse community of faith. One of my professors noted that many churches have aesthetic diversity, were there are people that look different from one another but all are subservient to the dominant culture's form of worship while neglecting their own unique background. The challenge is to have ethnic diversity where people of various races, genders, and socioeconomic backgrounds have a seat at the table.

Its difficult work, but be encouraged your on the right path.

By: Korin

Korin — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:28:08 +0000

This is a very complicated issue. In the past when I have moved to a new place and began visiting churches, the only ones that I saw as being both diverse and fostering good race relations were cults. (I'm sure there are many exceptions, but I didn't happen to visit them.)

When I lived in Atlanta the first time in the early 90s, I was part of a diverse church that was featured on a news special because diversity on Sunday mornings is so unusual (this church was led by a white pastor). My father predicted that instead of being a diverse church, we were probably attending a white church transitioning into a black church (a phenomenon he mentioned he had witnessed a few times before). His pessimistic views proved correct, and within the next few years many of the white members left the church.

Also, a Lutheran school in East Point my mother worked at was pastored by a white minister, but was a diverse church because it had a good mix of church members that had been there for decades (white members) and members that attended the school or lived in the neighborhood (black members). When the pastor moved away, and was replaced by a black minister, the white church members fled. This was very hurtful to many of the members of the congregation who had built friendships with the older white members over many years.

While I know that diversity is more than black and white, my experience regarding diversity in church has been a primarily black and white issue.

Unfortunately, I have not contributed much to this conversation, other than relay some rather unfortunate patterns. As to how we can reverse these patterns, I have no idea.