True believers are to minister to the people the truth of what the bible says is correct. That decision is a personal one that only God and God alone can jury. No administration has that right. If the world believes that it's the governments right to make this decision instead of a personal right to make a decision then the Kings message has been thrown in the garbage. We are all called to minister to one another to confess our sins and repent. No where is it listed in the bible that government should make this decision.

I commend your post. In my humble opinion, your view is correct. Not just because I agree, but more importantly because it's the truth. I read Piper's sermons and am truly inspired and challenged by many of them. God is working in his life. However, while I sense that a political ideology takes precedence on some "hot button" issues like abortion. It seems that he and a number of other ministers never say a mumbling word as long as a Republican are in control. Sad. Especially when ministers are called to deal in truth. Many church people seem to forget about separation of church and state to the demise of the church. When is it my business as a Christian to tell someone what to do with their body? the bible says to work "your own" salvation in fear and trembling. We have a ways to go. Good post. I would love to get Piper's comment on this. The truth does set us free.

When I was in my teens, I was raped. That rape ended up in a pregnancy that miscarried. I didn’t know I was pregnant till the miscarriage happened. It was then that I, at a very young age, had to think of what that pregnancy would have meant.

You want to get to the heart of why women get abortions? I can tell you my reasons why I would have.

When a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock, regardless of how, she is labeled a whore, a slut, anything but a child of God. Even if she’s a rape victim, she still has to deal with judgment from Christians, family, friends and men. Her reputation and relationships suffer. She knows what the pregnancy means, and its usually not good.

I know that my reputation and relationships would have been ruined if I had stayed pregnant. Maybe its selfish, but I’m glad that baby was lost. Its in a better place than the world that would have rejected it would have been.

Its a spiritual choice as well as personal in my opinion. Do I agree with abortion as a form of birth control? Not at all! But do I also think that the government has a right to put a metaphorical gun to a woman’s head and say “you must have this child”? No, I don’t agree with that either. That would be as wrong as telling a woman she must have an abortion for whatever reason they can come up with.

That’s just my opinion as someone who has actually had to face this topic first hand.

Is that right?

For more information on Justice Kennedy, the make up of the court during the Bush years and to realize that it's not as conservative as you suggest, just do a quick search for Justice Kennedy and the make up of the court. Even Wikipedia (which isn't even a legal site) gives a more accurate representation of this issue. I genuinely appreciate you and your work… but on this issue I simply disagree with your presumed facts.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy#Abor…

3. Again… another straw man. Roe v. Wade is a Federal law. We live under federalism and Roe actually makes legal abortion the law of the land. You argue that states 'could' do something different. No, actually in reality they can't. If Roe were overturned then they actually could each chose to decide. The Federal government has taken that decision from the states under the argument of protecting a constitutional right. Any state that makes a law overturning Roe in their state would easily be challenged and lose immediately in the courts. There is an issue called ‘federalism’ which grants states the right to make their own laws in areas where power hasn’t been extended elsewhere. Since Roe is tied to a constitutional issue the state itself can’t simply ignore the federal government on this one. They can, but it’d be symbolic at best and a waste of a lot of time.

Another point that should be mentioned here. There is a fallacy out there that suggests that if Roe is overturned abortion becomes outlawed. That’s not the case. If Roe were overturned, each state gets to take up this issue. The vast majority of states don't take up this fight on a state level right now mainly because it's a moot point.

Again Shaun, this is an argument of fact from my standpoint, not pure emotion.

4. I truly don't care about the role of the Vatican in American governmental affairs. It's not germane in my opinion. I'm not arguing you on this simply b/c I don't have a beef and I don't think it matters what foreign entities think of this policy.

Shaun, I’m looking forward to spending time with you in the future. I know we come from different perspectives on issues but we share a common passion for people and in the inner cities of America. We have a few areas where we see differently but I hope to build bridges with you as we each do our part in the Kingdom. I’m genuinely a fan of your work at Courageous Church and I continue to pray for your ministry bro.

I said: “I think your enthusiasm for a historic election is clouding objectivity here.”

You said: “To suggest that I am simply some giddy fool that can't quit smiling because a black man was elected is offensive.”

Interesting how we can say one thing and hear another.

As you know Shaun, I was raised in the projects of Baltimore and am now here serving in these communities. I'm also the product of a woman who was 16 when she got pregnant with me so I obviously have a personal bias toward life. I’ve never hid that point. I have close family members who have had abortions and I’ve ministered to plenty of women who have done so. I do believe that abortion is the taking of life and in those complex areas where a choice must be made I prefer to make decisions to preserve life and provide opportunity. Bush is not my homeboy and I’m not an advocate on this issue at all. I’ve had an active online presence for six years and I’m okay with someone researching my level of involvement on this issue.

The fact remains is that I commented because I do find major flaws in your argument so at your request I’m glad to share them below. This issue is complex and I’ve thinned it out but unfortunately this isn’t a quick post. Allow me to apologize for taking up this much real estate on your blog.

All four of your points have genuine flaws. Other people have mentioned some of them above. I’ll respond to each point in sequential order as you initially argued them.

1. Bush did in fact have policies in place to reduce abortions. Our nation has actually had a general decline over the last 20 years, which is encouraging.

I both value all life (foreign and domestic) so turning off the flood of Federal funding for foreign abortions is actually a major step in my book. When Obama overturned that he made a statement. I’m not sure how an objective observer could argue that he was ‘taking practical steps to reduce the number’ when he single handedly gave American money specifically for the purpose of abortion abroad. If you can help me understand that point I’d be interested to hear your take on that.

Teenage pregnancy was reduced -albeit not enough- under Bush (which certainly reduces abortion numbers). It's a straw man to say that he didn't make 'ending' the practice a primary goal. We have three branches of government and you know that simple executive order can’t pull it off. The argument is not if he made ending the entire practice a goal but rather what action was taken on this issue. It’s obvious that there was genuine action taken by the former President. I’m honestly looking for steps Mr. Obama has taken on this issue. Especially after the Mexico City policy reversal I’ve previously mentioned. It’s one thing to give lip service, it’s another to act.

Your entire point here about Piper calling out Obama but not Bush is simply misguided. Obama marked the anniversary of the occasion by celebrating the decision of Roe. Within 3 days of taking office he freed up money for foreign abortion. As a state senator he blocked abortion at every turn… even laws preventing the killing of live babies who survived botched abortions. Google: “born alive infant protection act obama”

To say that Obama is remotely similar to Bush on this particular issue is not supported by any credible fact out there.
See NYT article: http://tinyurl.com/czq5o3

As a side-note on race, abortion is 5 times more likely for an African American than a Caucasian. It's literally responsible for taking 80% more African American children from this planet than Caucasian. Stats from: http://www.guttmacher.org/

More genuine stats and thought on this topic at: http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-is-fr…