A few months ago I said that I wouldn’t be attending a particular church planting conference because every main speaker, every breakout speaker, every worship leader, and every musician at this “national” conference was a white male.
Now the conference for the church planting organization that I am a part of looks pretty much the same. I am required to go. Just like the “national” church planting conference, all of these speakers are the bomb. They lead great churches. I know these guys and love them. I’m just agitated by the lack of diversity.
My wife just said, “What are you going to do now big guy?“
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I think a conference should have the best speakers and leaders that they can find in that particular field, no matter what race. It's the same for hiring a coach in any sport. I do agree that having speakers and leaders from different backgrounds would definitely add so much more to a conference. I think if the organizers truly sought to find the best speakers on church planting, then it would naturally be a diverse bunch. That's the way God works. Hopefully you'll see this in the years to come.
Yeah, I think more are trying to incorporate a little more diversity. I lot of it comes from not having a diversified staff this means no one is thinking about diversity. Some of the youth networks that I'm involved with are really trying to begin to diversity because they see their is a whole other audience they are not reaching. I'm a female Youth Pastor, so there is a double negative but I consider it a positve so I feel ya brother! Actually, God is using me to bring diversity to some networks, so maybe that is what you are suppose to be a pioneer!
Why does race play any role in your decision to attend or not attend? Color makes no difference in the decisions that I make. My daughter goes to a predominately African American school (and is therefore in the minority) because it's academics are great. We live in a predominately African American neighborhood because we like this side of town. Honestly, the only people that I know personally that care about skin color, ironically enough, are African American. It's 2009. We have a mixed race President. I guess I didn't realize that color is still even an issue in the city.
Shaun I think you being there is the only way it will change.
Heaven will be a very diverse place so I agree, the best speakers no matter what color, but had a random thought pop in my head. Do you think there are other "non-white males" that have some of the same thoughts as you? Maybe they don't participate due to lack of diversity which is causing a vicious circle?
I really don't claim to know one way or another, again, the thought popped in my head and figured I would throw it out there for others to chew on also.
Here we go again..:)
Diversity needs to be modeled from the front.
Leadership needs to get their heads out the sand and realize that our world has become much more diverse.
Why is the church always last on this issue?
Shaun, i would love to see you and others (me?) on the platform teaching God's inspired words and directives.
I agree with Alicia. In my group of friends, I'M the minority, but I really don't care or even notice it until someone else brings it up. I like my friends because of who they are, not the color of their skin. Where I work, we do strive to be diverse, but not if it comprises quality. And I don't mean that in a harsh way at all. But, if there is an African American speaker/musician/actor that is better than a white speaker/musician/actor, we'll choose the African-American guy/girl. And if the white guy/girl is better, we'll choose them. And who knows… maybe this conference tried to get someone more diverse and they weren't available.
By in large African Americans don't do "church" the same way as white Americans. Only recently, maybe the last 5 years, if that as we see the Civil Rights clergy begin to die (literally) and institutional black churches are beginning the process of hiring new pastors–many after not having to hire a pastor for the last 30, 40 and gaaawwwd maybe 50 years, younger black preachers/pastors are beginning to allow culture to influence their theology.
Still, however, there is the tacit "white" model of worship and the "black" model of worship. "White" model of worship puts the music set at the beginning, announcements, the sermon, offering (while playing some music) and the benediction–that's it. I would make the assumption that most black churches aren't ready for that, let alone are black clergy ready to adopt such a model. Moreover, probably half of the reason blacks aren't involved in those type of conferences because these types of atmospheres aren't conducive to constructing a theology that's apropos for (1) inner city ministries (2) and addressing the unique concerns of predominantly African American congregations.
Case in point: I went to Creation this past summer up in Pennsylvania–have u heard of it?–and after listening to the Duffy Robbins and Ron Luce's I was rolling my eyes out of my head because all of what they were saying was geared to suburban white America, and if not suburban, then it was still toward all-white congregations.
Not to mention, out of all 80,000 people at Creation, I counted only about 20 other black kids. Maybe two, including myself, who looked like they hadn't grown up in the burbs.
I am not just talking about racial diversity. I am also talking about gender diversity. I am also not talking about Black & White, but this nation is way too diverse for us to still be hosting so called "national" conferences represented by such a small minority of people. I love the guys hosting the ARC Conference, but my beef is that this nation is full of African American, Latino, and Asian men & WOMEN that are rarely represented at conferences designed to reach everyone.
Many of you say that I am racist by talking about it, but that's just silly! If a conference is going to position itself to be a national conference for all people, its conveners should make a greater attempt at making it look like it. Period.
Alicia maybe you should ask more African Americans why we still talk about race.
The choices you make for you and your family to be in the minority sounds like they are by choice. Imagine what your experience would be like if this was not the case. Very often African Americans find ourselves in situations where we are the only ones (higher ed, jobs, conferences, etc.).
Yes, America has a "Mixed Heritage" President in 2009, what does that mean? Progress yes, have we arrived no! On New Year's at least 3 Men were shot by the police in major cities (Oakland, New Orleans, and Houston). They were not shot because of their religion, sexual orientation, age, or class, they were shot because they were Black men.
We'll stop talking about race when America stops making it an issue…
so you mean to tell me that the police shot them because they were black… ha ha ha. You are so shallow.
Please man. Why are going about things like this? I just don't get it. When was the last time I asked for money?
What you call stirring up crap I call taking a stand?
I am all for a debate, but your unwillingness to come on out the shadows gives you very little credibility. Your last comment that our team deleted was about as crass as it gets.
What is your real problem with me? Be real.
Shaun
@A.A. I must ask if you have ever come to a service to see Pastor Shaun speak? If you had, then maybe you would not be so quick to condemn him and his passion for spreading Christ's love to the people in Atlanta and beyond. Shaun brings up relevant issues and discusses them in a transparent manner, which is more than I can say for many pastors around. I appreciate his candor and although sometimes unorthodox, his approach is authentic.
I think your words hit below the belt and are definitely unfair. The church is not failing at all and is filled with committed people who love Jesus and have a passion for this ministry. When you attack my pastor, you are attacking all of us.
As far as the issue regarding the conference, it is a shame that, in our country, it is still so segregated. In fact, it could still be said that the most segregated hour in our country exists on Sunday mornings. It would be nice to see more Latinos, more women, more Asians, more African Americans — more, period — attending and being represented at these conventions. My opinion is that Pastor Shaun go for the training. There is always something to learn. I also say to bring a mix of people with you. Don't shy away from the issue and hope it gets better. Sit in the front seat and make your presence known!
Pulease man! Here's the thing – you think Morgan Freeman is the character you like so much on Shawshank Redemption, but he has regularly taken unpopular stands on tough issues.
Everybody is not going to do things the way I do them. You are of the belief that pointing out problems is some type of sin or whining, but I just don't see it that way.
Shaun…I attended a large multicite video venue church that had a fabulous idea to 'unite' churches 'world-wide' thru a pivotal event called oneprayer. I LOVED the idea…but…I was disappointed when the guest speaking Pastors were unveiled for the month long event. to be broad cast to our particular campuses. All of the pastors were accomplished and notable white males from the Southern United States. While I think that voice certainly represents a portion of the body of Christ…it certainly isn't or shouldn't be the only voice…There was no cultural diversity…no racial diversity and certainly no gender diversity…The idea of 'global' unity and diversity… in the body of Christ is compelling…I crave it…yet it still seems a long way off.
I appreciate your voice Shaun…I think it is important that you are willing to speak up….I hope that those that organize these events…will hear what you are saying…and receive it thoughtfully…it's definately time.
Generally speaking the administrators will delete anonymous posters! How can we debate you when you won't even come out of the shadows! Why be anonymous? We debate people on here all the time!
To Shaun,
I've been blogging for a minute and I visit a number of blogs. One of my favorite blog allows for anonymous posting simply because you never know what job implications may get traced back simply by not posting anonymous. Not every anonymous poster is a troll and may really appreciate your blog, but doesn't want to get in trouble at their job for posting on here.
My wife just said, “What are you going to do now big guy?“
Repeat after me, "I'm gonna sell out honey."
lol
you can require registration to comment, and feel free to ban people's IP bro. do this in your settings on intensedebate.com
I live in Houston, and YES, the guy was shot because he was Black. He lives in an upper-class part of the city and because he was Black and it was late at night, the police stopped him. They had no reason to stop him. That's FACT, not speculation. They shot him because they thought he was armed and was reaching for his weapon, which he was not. Fortunately he lived, but others (Amadou Diallo) have not been so lucky.
The president has nothing to do with people's prejudices. Just over 50% of the country voted for him. That means there's almost 50% that didn't vote for him. And I'm not going to say that they didn't vote for him because he was Black, but I am willing to bet that it was a big factor in many people's decisions.
Yes, he's mixed, but it's funny that the only people that really bring that up are people that aren't Black. Black people know that if you look Black, no matter who your parents are, you're Black, and you're treated as such.
No, racism isn't as widespread as it once was, but people still have prejudices and stereotype others. Race will always be a factor, not necessarily because people want it to be a factor, but just because races act differently. The Black culture is different from White culture. Hispanic culture is different. Asian culture is different. Everybody's heritage is different and as such people tend to act differently. Now if this were to stop happening, then race wouldn't be a factor, but then the world would be a boring place.
I think KTackel brought up a good point. Maybe other non-white, non-male people are also looking at the conference and silently protesting because of the lack of diversity. All it takes is one person.
What is the demographic(s) of the attendees? Are they also mainly white males?
I think this is utterly hilarious! Why? Because of how adamant you were about Pt. 1. Here's the deal, and so many here have said it well. There are cultural differences between how church is done. Unfortunately, within African-American communities, we tend to be a day late and a dollar short. HOWEVER (before everyone starts trippin'), once we get a hold of it (whatever it may be), we tend to take it to another level.
Here's my advice, use the platform you are given to usher in a new mindset. You have the opportunity to do it, so go for it and quit whining about what ain't there. I live in this daily thru my work associations (and you and others know what those are), but instead of being bitter, I see it as a chance for me to expand mindsets and expose others to what else is out there. Do the same.
I think this is a great opportunity for you to be the change. To spark the diversity. To build the diverse culture that has long been needed in that arena of ministry.
Don't complain. Transform it.
I believe we will do just that my man!
Hilarious indeed. God has a sense of humor!
I feel ya Bro. I have had the same thoughts for a long time. I also don't attend the church planting conferences for this same reason. Also if you look up the make up of most of these churches. They definitely reflect what the staff looks like. I have been praying for God to bring revelation and understanding in this area to those Pastor's.
Where are the young African-American, Asian and Latino pastors who are effectively reaching people in their cities with churches that don't follow the old traditional church format? I feel like people like Eugene Cho are the exception and not the norm. While our country is becoming more and more diverse… the landscape of the evangelical church is remaining segregated for the most part (with exceptions like Courageous). I live in Raleigh, NC…. and there is such a lack of diversity in the churches (and within church leadership teams) in this city. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do… but if I were in your position I would be tempted not to go… out of protest…. and then spend the time I would have been at the conference praying and working to assemble a diverse network and church planters who ARE diverse.
OR… go there with the intention of planting the seeds of a revolution from within.
let's find a solution, not just re-visit the problem.
I agree with a few other comments here: attend with a big mouth! Hopefully, for the sake of Christian community and love, they will thoughtfully consider your sentiments.
..:::sidenote:::.. I pondered addressing those who have a "blacks need to get over it" mentality, but I didn't want to hijack your blog. :) Great post!
~blissalexandria
II Timothy 1:7
Hello. I am a white female from CA. Coming from a place where diversity is more common to the South, it was a culture shock. I am currently looking for, and have had difficulty finding, a multicultural church. Just my personal opinion, but the pastor I would want to follow is one who is willing to deal with all issues head on, and willing to be a catalyst for change.
Pastor Shaun: The content of your blogs and your responses to comments made are starting to make me think you could be a pastor I would want to follow. I did attend the grand opening of your church, and honestly did not feel very welcome. After reading this whole thread, I think I will check it out again.
Thanks for your courage in addressing hard topics, and enjoy the conference!
Let me ask you this question…did you ask any of these questions when you looked at the board of directors when you first looked into connecting with the ARC network? Did you notice that the ARC is comprised of similar cultures as those that will be speaking at the conference? Did you ask them those questions when they were assessing you? Did you proclaim that it was too white then? I am not trying to be intolerant of your position because I am not. I think diversity is extremely important and I pastor a very diverse church. I just want to know that you are not being disingenuous and that you shared these concerns before you benefitted from their training and resources as these men have and are backing your dream. I also hope that you would have shared this with them before you then posted this on your blog as many of the churches and men have invested their money and church budgets in helping your dreams to become reality.
Furthermore, I am sure that, not that I speak for them of course, but if you are so concerned about their lack of diversity and inability to find people that meet the criteria you have posted about, will let you return the seed money they gave you and back out of your presence at the conference. I think that it is arrogance to believe that men who will be at this conference and people who lead and direct the network have no relationship with or to others in different cultural backgrounds and that you could bring that to them. I believe if you wanted to be a true difference in the lives of others there are much more humble ways in addressing your concerns. Personally, I pray that their will never be people in your church whom disagree with you and then begin to blog about you rather than approach you. I was very impressed with your heart for the city and some of your strategy, however, the approaches you have taken in regards to these situations is completely disappointing. I pray you hear my heart here. Thanks for listening!
Thanks for your comment Jim. Are you an ARC pastor?
I have been talking about diversity and the need for diversity every since I first connected with ARC. I love ARC. I say so in this post. Many ARC churches are very diverse.
My problem is with conferences. Big time conferences that simply lack the diversity that I think draws all people.
Not sure if you know this Jim, but all ARC seed money has to be paid back to ARC. It is not a gift. The money is a low-interest loan.
Secondly, I am making this list because pastors that lead many of the conferences that I have referenced have either said that they don't know very many people from other cultures or that they would like for me to create such a list. This list was not my idea. I honestly hope that the problem is that these pastors that lead these conferences don't have relationships with people from other cultures instead of having relationships and just not feeling like anyone, year after year after year, from another culture is worth bringing in.
My intent is not to hurt ARC and I assure you that these pastors are big enough and bad enough and tough enough to handle me talking about tough issues on this blog.
Shaun
Shaun,
I do know that the money that is given is asked back from you…thus fulfilling the dreams of others and reaching more cities as you are doing…thankfully so! I am sure you agree! Well, I know some of these guys and I will tell you that they do know diverse individuals. However, I am not sure that many of them think through the whole idea of what you have proposed as they do not look at things through the glasses of color or possibly feel as though the individuals they do know would relate to the types of planters that they have. Are you aware otherwise? That said and let me be clear…I am a pastor of a very diverse church, I know men of diversity whom would teach us all more than we could ever learn and I am in complete agreement with your ideas, my issue is the idea of just floating this out on your blog.
Furthermore, I would still be interested to know if you spoke privately with any of these men before doing so. I want to say this…Jesus was "big enough and bad enough and tough enough to handle" my sin and forgive it on the cross…thus, my need for asking forgiveness for it is unnecessary for me to be loved by Him on a daily basis. However, I do so because it strengthens the relationship and furthers my ability to connect with my God. My point is you are right and these individuals should look at these points being raised…however, I am not so sure that the relationship is furthered, strengthened or your point produces fruit when you approach it in such a way. I am serious when I say that being right is not the point…loving people enough for them to change comes with an attitude of humbleness not an attitude of being right or proving some point or even stirring the pot. Sometimes for the sake of relationship we as pastors should use restraint publicly in order to propel the body privately. Thus, taking your suppositions to these individuals with discretion might have more merit.
I can tell you that many people have read your blog I am sure and because of that, there may be planters and future called pastors who will never look at using ARC or other institutions for advancement because they now have lost respect for these men and may read something much more harmful into your posts rather than take them at face value. Hypothetical with merit coming…What if there was a young planter looking for a body of relationship with a network and was praying about the ARC and after reading your post thought…wow these guys may be racist…forget partnering with them. I am VERY sure in saying that this is not what you would have intended, but when you write stuff like this there is no accountability for what others may think you mean or say…they just respond! Having said that there is grace…
I am sure that these men will still care about you, help you and probably love you no matter what you do, however, a soft answer turns away wrath and asking forgiveness propels the relationship and approaching objections with discretion spurs change! You, I can tell are a bright, caring individual whom I pray for and have prayed for in regards to your church and influence in Atlanta on MANY occasions. All I know is while it is not easy to hear when you are wrong, hearing it privately propels change…outing it publicly propels dissention, loss of influence, and destroys relationship. Maybe the next time you are right maybe you could share your thoughts privately first to see if anyone is willing to listen.
Thanks, Jim
I joined this blog and discussion because it was interesting and in my opinion was attempting to address an issue that could use some change. Jim, I wish I could address you privately, but I don't know how to reach you privately. Just my opinion, and maybe not my business, but my perception is that you are doing the same thing you are saying Shaun should not be doing…outing things publicly. I now feel confused when reading this thread.
Hey Nancy!
You are correct. It is amazingly ironic that Jim has spent so much time calling me out publicly in great detail because he doesn't think I was right in making something public.
Here's my thing though Nancy – Jim has read too much into some of what I have said and too little into other parts.
1. I love ARC and love the pastors of ARC and the other conferences that I have mentioned. This is not a secret. I say so in the post. These pastors are the bomb!
2. Jim talks as if I exposed a secret, but I did not. I am stating an obvious fact that anyone could notice by taking a quick glance at any of these conference websites.
3. I am sticking to my guns on this post and others – Diversity makes a conference better. I strongly believe that and always will.
4. Lastly – this blog is called "SHAUN in the City" because it is about me and my views. I am a fairly young pastor (29) and may see technology different than Jim or others. What I say on blog or Twitter or Facebook is not the "VIRTUAL ME" but is the same Shaun that you will see or hear anywhere else. The newest generation of people don't really see lines drawn between what you say online, say face to face, etc.
Thanks for continuing this discussion. I fine with Jim's perspective and don't mind that he feels so strongly about his views. That's what this blog is about.
-Shaun
Jim,
What you may be surprised to know is that I have had nearly 10 church planters already tell me that they would not consider ARC because they just weren't sure that ARC valued diversity. These pastors, most of them strangers, reached out to me and wondered aloud how I could be a part of a group that seemed to neglect diversity in leadership.
For you or anyone else to say that you think I am calling these pastors racist is just dumb. I clearly state that these pastors are awesome, but that the conference would be enhanced by diversity.
If anything, my hope is that pastors of color will be encouraged by my blog since I am an ARC pastor myself.
Shaun
Hey Shaun, since I am responsible for the line up at the ARC conference I thought I would chime in a little. No excuses here except to say that many of our churches are, on a local level, very diverse and are leading a movement to put diversity on the front burner of all they do. I feel the same way and previously, before ARC, I was the executive pastor of a church that had a beautiful ratio of 60/40 white/non-whites, mostly who were African Americans. I was probably responsible for hiring more African American pastors to staff our church than any other church leader in the country at that time. So, nothing in my heart is against diversity.
The fact is that there have only been a handful of leaders that have come to us that were African American, Hispanic, Asian or of any other diversity. We have helped plant a few of their churches that they pastor now and are thrilled that they are a part of ARC. You have been one of our heroes as far as successful church plants are concerned. We based our selection of each one of these on basically three things:
1. Were they qualified?
2. Were they a fit for the ARC model?
3. Could they meet the requirements for garnering resources and all other ARC guidelines.
In other words, race has nothing to do with whether or not we accept a church planter.
As far the conference is concerned we have no other criteria except that the speakers represent the heart and spirit of ARC and have an interest in furthering the cause of church planting around the USA and the world. The other criteria is huge…it is RELATIONSHIPS. Relationships is what we are all about. As we grow and become more diverse, our relationships will become more diverse and it will be a natural progression of events that place diverse leaders in a position where they can represent what we stand for and embrace.
I was disappointed that you make the "White Male" conference reference in the way that you did. There are much better ways to approach this. It is your blog however and you can do it however you want to, but it didn't have to be done that way. Turn the tables and think about if I would say something with that intensity about "Black Males" and you might understand where I am coming from. I would probably be accused of a hate crime!
I believe in what you are doing in the Atlanta area for Christ and pray for you. Therefore I want to leave you with one final thought. Will this issue that you've addressed, and the way you are addressing it tend to make your church and ministry more diverse? Or less diverse? Shaun, stay in the Spirit of Jesus.
Love you and Rai and look forward to having lunch in Atlanta with you guys soon.
Billy Hornsby
P.S. We just approved another African American couple and a mixed couple to plant ARC churches at our assessment this week.
Billy,
Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and instructive comment. I am aware that a lot of ARC churches are diverse on the local level and that has always actually been a selling point for me. The title of this post, in some ways, was meant to provocative but also somewhat descriptive of the speaker lineup. I apologize if it comes off as crass or ill-conceived.
I will be taking your questions and suggestions to heart and will strive to do what we think will help make us more diverse. I admire you tremendously and think of you as MY leader.
We look forward to seeing you all soon.
Shaun & Crew
Shaun, you are the King of Marketing! I am not offended, I just don’t want you to do anything that would keep potential members away. Your success is our success and the success of all the church planters that will follow. We have learned a lot from you and want to pass that on to new church planters. We really do want to come for lunch soon. What is your favorite restaurant? Billy
I understand where Shaun is coming from, but believe as others have stated that as a senior pastor, a blog is probably not an appropriate medium to take on this subject because there may be misinterpretations that would be hurtful to both ARC and the Courageous church. However, I have not been impressed with many of the comments thus far in disagreement with Shaun because they seem to lack understanding. I especially disagree with many of the dissenting commentary in the blog aimed at compiling a list of influential pastors of color. However, I think that Mr. Hornsby has offered some thought provoking statements and has done so with grace and love. As a regular attender of Courageous church and an African American I am sometimes put off by some of Shaun's blogs I have read regarding race and politics. I think that they don't explore as critically both sides of the issue, and am struggling with the biblical basis of some of the ideas. In addition, I find some of the language a little crude. (I.e, I don't agree with referring to someone's post as stupid) If I am somewhat put off, I am sure that non African Americans may be even more put off, and this might negatively affect the diversity of the church as Billy has implied. However, I will continue to attend the church for the time being primarily because the Lord has yet to lead me otherwise, and because I believe that with age and maturity, a lot of the approaches Mr. King has taken will change. The Lord is constantly working on all of us. I'm sure Mr. King will not agree with me now to this end, but only time will tell. I for one am part of an industry that is dominated by white males. I used to be very in your face and create a crusade with every little issue. It's not so much that I choose my battles now as that I look more into the intent than the result. If people's intentions are good, I can privately and in a respectful manner evoke change via conversations with well meaning people. (Now, when it comes to the not so well meaning people…..) However, I am still a bit of a rebel, and tend to stir up the pot sometimes when perhaps I shouldn't or when there are better approaches. But hey, the Lord is still working on me too, and I know I have a loooooooooooong way to go….
P.S. don't read too much into what I am saying, I'm just sharing how I feel and I think it might be a helpful opinion to throw out there…..
Thanks for your thoughts Korin! I am glad that you stick around even though you don't agree with everything I say. Taking your comments to heart!
What did you think I wouldn't agree with – you saying that the Lord is still working on all of us? Please sis! I know this better than anybody!
See you Sunday!
Shaun
Oh, I just always like to make a distinction between what I feel and what I know. There are some things I know 100% to be true, and sometimes I share how I feel right or wrong. I just wanted to be clear that the post in general was a more of a "how I feel". I think that sharing my opinions even if they may not be the final word on anything may be helpful, because others might feel the same too.
Nancy,
Let me say that I totally understand your thoughts…but please know that I tried to contact Shaun privately in the past and was not responded to. So, I got the impression that only public comments were addressed because that is usually what happens on popular blogs. However, I do feel as though the whole point of the blog and my issues when raising problems on them is shown through so clearly through this and feel as though my points could help others to think twice before just saying how they feel as a pastor. That is just my thought and I was not trying to offend Shaun rather, try to point out a few dissenting remarks that might have some merit.
Thanks,
Jim
Shaun,
That is very sad and I think unfounded! However, if they have not been to a CPR they may not know this. That said…I am very excited that you are a part of ARC and as I have said in the past I have been very impressed with you as a thinker and planter and have prayed for you often. Again, I am not sure that you have heard me…PLEASE see my above comment as highlighted here…"I am VERY sure in saying that this is not what you would have intended"…Thus, I did not say that you were saying this as you proposed above…I was simply saying that others MIGHT…not me!
Furthermore, I am not sure that it is "dumb" as there are individuals who think that ARC lacks diversity and "reached out to you". I had a couple of individuals of diversity (one black and two hispanic) read your posts and the reason I said "hypothetical with merit" is because based on your posts they said "wow those guys may be racist"…so not sure what you make of that but that is what they thought…"dumb" or not. I pray that people do not think this, however, you told me of ten already who question the diversity aspect. I don't know Shaun…I just wanted you to think about what you were saying…I have said things in ways that were true but not said properly in the past and wanted you to see this. I was hoping for some understanding and think that your response to Bill was encouraging and happy that you said what you did. You seem defensive and upset at me but I care about ARC and the perceptions that people have, furthermore, the perception you have of this entity that has helped you and so many others. Thanks Shaun!
Shaun,
I wish you would see my posts once again…I did not "act as if you exposed a secret" as I agree with diversity being included within all conferences as I pastor a church with tons of diversity as said previously. My issue was with, once again, how you have gone about it! As far as me I am 32…not the old guy that you make me out to be…LOL. Hopefully rather than see our debate as negative you will realize this is iron sharpens iron. Btw, we are in the same network and are on the same side! Thanks!
Hey Jim,
I am winding down my commenting on this thread, but you have been pretty INSINCERE in this comment man. Someone basically told you that you are doing the same thing that you found to be so problematic with me and you basically resorted to a major cop-out.
You suggest to Nancy that you really tried to contact me and resorted to all of your comments on here because you couldn't reach me.
You NEVER reached out to me about this issue. Period. Did you call me? Email me? My office? Speak to my assistant? I am about the most accessible guy you will find that is really on the net.
Did you send me a message of Facebook or Twitter? I have 10 different ways to be reached and we can't find where you tried any of those. Believe me – we checked. I don't even know who you are man.
Shaun
Shaun,
I am very sorry to hear that you feel I am "insincere" and that I "resorted to a major cop-out". I promise I was not trying to, I was only trying to address Nancy's comment. I was not looking to get into a he said she said type of a deal…that really detracts from the issue and it is clear that the issues are erased by this type of dialogue. All I can tell you is that I emailed to this address shaunking@courageous.tv However, I am not sure this is the point as you posted your items on an open blog and I had intended on responding to your posts…I thought that is what you wanted…open debate, but I could be wrong, if so, please forgive me! I hate that we have gone so far as to begin questioning someone’s integrity.
Furthermore, I did not say that we knew each other, or imply that in any of my posts…what I did say above is that I was praying for you and that we were on the same side. I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings or touched a nerve as I was only discussing your approach to things. If I did something to offend you I am truly sorry! Once again, I will say that I am encouraged by your passion and heart for the city and strengthened by what God has called you to do. I pray that we will meet in the future at a ARC event or somewhere down the road and we could have coffee. Thanks Shaun!
Jim:
I still wish that I could address you privately, and I am only commenting now so that you know that when you responded to me, I did not feel that you addressed my comment at all. I feel like you used my comment to further your agenda, which I'm still not so sure of what it is. I will not respond to you on this blog after this. If you want to respond to me you can at nbgoombah@yahoo.com. Just a suggestion, you could have used an open blog post requesting Shaun to reach you privately. This is my first experience with blogging and I must say, it has been interesting for me.
Nancy,
I am sorry you feel that way…not sure what I could say more to address your concerns. I am really not looking for an argument with you or Shaun. I was never trying to cause a problem only to open dialogue about the best way to approach situations where personal relationships are involved. I think Bill Hornsby made my point clearer and it has much more credibility as he has personal relationship with Shaun and I do not. That said, thanks for your thoughts and your dialogue, and I am happy that Shaun has individuals like you who support him, we all need those types of people in our lives. Thanks Nancy!
Whooab, brotha! How in the world did I miss your blog? First, props to you and your wife for obeying God's call to plant Courageous. I used to live in the ATL (pre Georgia-Dome days, lol). Secondly, consider yourself added to my blog roll because the Holy Spirit is at work in your ministry. Thirdly, I totally vibe with your concerns about church planting conferences. I'm a 30-something African-American woman who feels called to plant churches. Gratefully, I have a pastor who actually wanted to meet with me and get a feel for what's in my heart to do.
I'm doing my own research and looking for other planters (male, female, ethnicity no issue) called by God to support and lift up in prayer.
So yeah, we ARE here and God ain't blind. Peace.
Thanks a ton sis! Hope you are doing very well.