When we learned last August that we were going to be able to hold our Sunday services @ Center Stage I was pretty doggone amped! But here's the thing – our best intentioned, well-crafted plans make God laugh. For the reasons that I detailed here and a few that I didn't detail (like the fact that it is cold as a snowman's buttcrack inside of Center Stage on Sunday mornings), we will be in a brand new spot on Sunday, March 1st and I'd love your feedback!
I am pretty much wide-open, but here are two prerequisites:
- It has to cost $3,000 or less per month.
- It has to be in downtown/Midtown Atlanta. We are a city church.
Option #1: Several churches are available on Sunday's from 2pm-9pm and I am open to holding services, for instance, on Sunday @ 6pm or Sunday @ 5pm & 7pm.
One great church in Midtown Atlanta is available for $500 per Sunday. It has a great, easy to find location with a beautiful sanctuary and a few classrooms for a nursery and children's ministry. A few months ago I was down on using church space as a church plant, but my buddy Jon Tyson @ Trinity Grace Church is doing it all over New York City. This option would immediately cut our costs down by over 50%, would keep us in our target area, and would not really require us to make any major equipment purchases.
The primary drawback is that we cannot have a Sunday morning service.
Option #2: A great office building just a few blocks away from Center Stage that is right inside of our target area has a large office available for $3,000 a month. This is a great deal in downtown Atlanta. Here's the thing though…the office building has a large conference room that holds about 300 people that would be available to us for Sunday morning gatherings and events during the week. It has a ton of chairs available, a great projector and large screen, and a simple sound system. The room is located right by the front entrance of the office building and is really nice. A smaller conference room is available for a nursery and Courageous Kids.
The biggest benefit to this space is that we would have it for 7 days a week. We could host multiple services on Sunday and gatherings/events during the week. While we would have to purchase some additional sound equipment, we would at least be able to store it there on site. Like option #1, this option is located on a very well-known, easy to find street.
Option #3: A very cool loft space is available for $1500 a month. This space is deeply discounted and is big enough for a large gathering space and a few small offices/children's ministry spaces. While this space is not located as prominently as option #1 or #2, it is still located just about 2 miles from the central city. Like option #2, we will have this space for seven days a week and it is obviously a MAJOR cost savings over Center Stage and a bit of a cost savings over options #1 & #2. The primary drawbacks to this space is that it will require us to purchase more equipment (chairs, podiums, projectors, sound system, etc.), is a bit off of the beaten path, and the rent, we were told, is subject to go up significantly in the near future.
Give me your raw feedback. What do you think about each option? Which option is your favorite? Why?
{ 29 comments… read them below or add one }
Hey man…ever thought about the movie theater. We had a similar experience up here in MD and the theater was a great option for us.
For some reason #2 is sounding good for me. Perhaps it is because I was in the corporate world before I joined the Godly world full time. We started a plant church in the combination of a bowling alley on Sunday mornings and another church on Saturday evenings. We then moved to a big hall at a local college.
It sounds like option two is the best. It has all of what your looking for and it keeps you in the area of town you feel called to be. Is it by chance on Williams Street, near centinial park? It sounds like the building that my company is based out of.
I have another option that may be your answer. Call me since I am the Atlanta Event Queen Robin Ware!
I’m feeling #2 as well, just because it is on the middle scale w/ the funds and also it’s a place where you can call home for a while and hold several events during the week.
Not sure if you have looked into renting out a school? that’s what we are doing here in CA. We have 2 sunday services (10&11:30)
Our church in Dayton has done all three options, and there are only two reasons that I would not choose option 3. 1 – You can not figure our a way to get people there based upon location and or parking. 2 – you do not have the ready cash to have service in the location… The reason I say this, is we have had large building and small buildings (we are currently in a movie theater with offices somewhere else), and cutting cost (while some may see it as a lack of faith), in my view allows you to do greater ministry with the left over resources… We just cut our cost by over 50% a month (changed everything – name and location), and it is allowing us to make plans to attack the issues of poverty in our area… Just my thoughts! We are praying for you…
Dear Pastor Shaun,
I have some questions regarding the move of the church and I wanted to pose them to you.
Option #1: While this is great economically right now, does this limit our growth for the future if we have restricted times of service, limited access to the building, and the overall limitations of subleasing another church’s premises?
Option #2 and #3: Do we have the budget to pay for the sound equipment and would it be appropriate for future space, should we build a new location?
Option #3: Does the loft space have good lighting… and heating/air conditioning?
These are just questions I have. I think God will lead us in the right direction, and I am glad to hear about the change in venue!
Option 2 sounds like a winner. My only suggestion is that you have all contracts in writing before making a final decision.
Hey mate.
Have you tried looking at Seventh Day Adventist Churches in the area. Great buildings normally, cheap, and available Sunday mornings. I personally think that in starting a church its vital to offer Sunday morning worship.
Prayerful consideration leads me to #3. With a contract for three years. In that time you will probably need to move due to growth anyway. (or you will have a large enough congregation to pay any increase in the rent) Purchasing the items you need can be a blessing in that you get what you want not what is already present. Blessings, Barbara
If the loft is like most in the ATL with concrete floors, etc. We’d probably need to purchase acoustic paneling, so that’s another potential added cost. Same might go for #2, depending on what the space is like. But, I definitely lean more towards #2. Especially since its available 7 days a week.
I actually think #1 is the best option. Or either like someone else mentioned, looking for another church like a 7th day adventist where we could still get the Sunday morning. I think with the crowd we’re geared toward would not necessarily object to an evening service, like 6pm. Furthermore, I think the best way to go about this is to start small, and grow from there. With all the sound/seating stuff already available, we can use money to build on some of the community building initiatives we’ve been trying to set up.
And anyway, we don’t have access to Center Stage now during the week really anyway. We don’t have an office now either. What’s the difference?
Awesome feedback…keep it coming!
-Shaun
I would not get a space that would barely fit the people you currently have unless you are really excited about multiple services (which you would need almost immediately).
Doubt that helps but the idea of having to double your volunteer staff does not excite me. Though the volunteers will get to go to service it would be easier to give them a free dvd of it.
well my “saving money” side wants you to pick option one…and the side of me that wants to start coming to courageous church also wants option one :). i have to say though the benefit of having the other locations seven days a week is great! but i think i might be bias because i want to be able to come to services and as of right now i can’t :(. but i understand if you go for option two because i do see it’s advantages.
Hey pastor shaun…… option number 1 looks like the best one. I say that beacause if you look at the new generation now they sleep very late and might just like a church sevice in the afternoon. But on the flip side option number two is great too. It has everything we need and also we can have another service in the afternoon.
Good evening,
After carefully considering all options it seems to me that our best bet would be Option #2. It would require very little in out of pocket expenses as far as equipment and other things are concerned.
Hello Pastor Shaun,
A few thoughts. It seems that Option #2 is best from the cost, a place to call home,and for the nontraditional feel standpoints. In the mission of bringing “non-churchy” people in to build a community movement it appears that a church building in the traditional since would fly in the face of mission. Being in prime downtown location is also key. Lastly, there wouldn’t be alot of other costs outlaid to host service with opportunities to maximize space throughout week with courageous ideas yet to be born.
I generally feel that immediately limiting the seating capacity is not the best bet- seems like having multiple smaller services is more labor intensive and maybe takes away from the “critical mass” experienced by a large group of people in terms of the intensity of the experience and getting the energy going for church projects. On the other hand, having a permanent, 24/7 space is good too. Is the Office space a very “Officy” environment- like all white walls and fluorescent lights? That doesn’t seem like a great environment, if so. Lastly, concerning the loft space, please keep MARTA accessibility a central consideration. A church committed to social justice should not be accessible only by car!
I guess I’m in the minority here, but I have to say that I really like the loft option. Maybe I am romanticizing it, but it seems like that option has the kind of “vibe” we’re working toward with Courageous. The loft space seems like exactly the right setting for starting out small(ish) and building the relationships from within as we grow the church. Also, having access 7 days a week will become pretty important, I think, and the lower cost is definitely a draw. It seems, from what you wrote, that we will be making purchases whether we go with the office space or the loft, and the office space seems to already have some capacity limitations, right? I may also be gravitating toward the loft because you quantified the loft as “a very cool space,” though. Are you trying to subliminally influence us? If so, it worked on me, at least!
I am not feeling the church space at all. I think that when you declare yourself as being a church for people who generally feel that “church sucks,” it might be a bit aesthetically displeasing to have services in a typical, established church setting…especially when that setting is not really “ours.” Part of the community-building we’re working toward, I would think, would include giving the members of the church a sense of empowerment and ownership, so to speak, and I think that sharing space with another church would take away from that. Also, I enjoy morning services, though I definitely see the good in being able to offer multiple services.
Just my two cents!
Well, options 1 & 3 sound good to me.
In regards to option 1 – I’ve never been a big fan of morning services anyway–(I’m not a morning person). Plus, I have friends, both Christian and non-Christian alike, who are not able to go to morning services because they work, which limits their options for attending church on Sundays and as a result they just give up on church altogether. I think we need more evening services here in Atlanta. Currently I only know of 2 churches that do this (BC being one of them). Not to mention the fact that it slices your budget in half. The only real drawback I would see is would they allow you to use the space during the week if necessary? But then my question to you is do you have a need for space during the week right now? You seem to be a very action-oriented, community oriented church. A church more concerned with working beyond the walls than within, so imho I’m not sure if you would need weekday space. But I don’t know the total vision of your church so only you can answer that. But then all that being said, Angela’s points above make absolute sense against going with option 1. And it sounds like she’s on your team so you might want to listen to her.
As for option 3, the loft sounds like it would create a cool vibe for Courageous, and it’s also cheaper. My only concern would be what would be the cost of all the equipment you’d have to get to go into it? Is it going to end up being just as expensive as Center Stage? Those things add up…
Hey Shaun
I like option 2 mainly due to the fact that it’s already equipped with sound equipment and seats and things of that nature. Option 3 sounds great as well, just concerned with the cost of purchasing equipment and other items need for service. Definitely not feeling option 1. My husband and I, as well as our kids, attended service this past Sunday and that “non-stuffy” environment was definitely a draw, as opposed to a traditional church setting. We throughly enjoyed ourselves and are looking forward to being a part of the Courageous Family.
I hope this helps some in making your decision.
Shaun – Not having a Sunday morning service is not a bad thing. Consider the perspective offered in this blog post: http://chuckwarnockblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/dying-newspapers-dying-churches/
Also, (if you haven’t already) consider reading “Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola and George Barna.
I like option 2 because there is less to purchase, it is available througout the week, and there will not be a random cost jump.
OK, I’m not trying to monopolize or get all pushy about my opinion, but there has been much discussion in my house the last few days about these options, and I want to kind of share my visualization with you about the loft option. (Can you post pics of these spaces, Shaun? That would help a lot, I think!)
Anyway, here’s what I see: soft, easy lighting (though not quite as soft as that @ Center Stage!), maybe murals on the walls, and maybe in addition to traditional seating arrangements (chairs in rows, etc.) we could have some alternate seating groupings around the room, as well, either tables or something on the floor, or something. (Just to share — @ Center Stage now, I really hate the stadium seats, so I usually end up perched on the step in the aisle and weird as this may sound it always puts me in mind of ancient Greece, with Socrates teaching from a step with his students lounging around in togas, absorbing his philosophy – maybe a little stupid, laugh if you want, but that’s where I’m at.)
Also, with the loft space (or any space, really, even now, @ Center Stage), Missy and I would like to do a coffee ministry before services, where people could congregate and talk and enjoy fellowship with one another. Aren’t we supposed to be building relationships with one another as well as our community? I know it’s not completely on-topic here, and Missy’s going to email you further on this, Shaun, but I wanted to mention it.
OK, two more cents from me! Thanks for listening. :)
Shaun, I would do option #1 for now. I assume the $500 per Sunday is open-ended, but requiring only a short notice (30-days) to discontinue. Initially I did not like option #1 because it is a church, which would turn off some folks. I do not see no Sunday morning as a problem. But the main reason I would choose #1 is to give you time with little commitment to really figure out what you need to do long-term. Your immediate problem is to get out of Center Stage. But, that may not mean you need a long-term solution. Maybe you need an intermediate step which costs you very little. I started a church in a Marriott Hotel in NC, and I loved having all the equipment on-site and owned by them, not us. -Chuck
Good morning, Shaun.
Option #2: A great office building just a few blocks away from Center Stage – this one gets my vote for the following reasons:
1. Location location location – now, instead of saying, “Our worship service is held at Center Stage,” we may say, “Our worship service is held just a couple of blocks away from Center Stage!” :) Plus, I feel downtown Atlanta needs Courageous and will be even more receptive once we engage in some guerilla tactics marketing.
2. The availability will provide the music team with a place to practice throughout the week. It will also give us a great deal of flexibility.
3. It’s affordable and an all around good fit for us now. By the way, I don’t recall reading in this blog entry that it will require us to sign a long term lease.
I like option two the best though option one is good too
I am a Saturday attender – 5:00p -(evangelical church with multiple options). My second service of choice is Sunday evenging – 5:00p. I am 32 and have three boys under four years old. This evening time allows for mornings to be peaceful and attending in the evening is a perfect way to cap my day. Plus I still have time for dinner with friends before putting my kids down for bed. All that to say…I like option 1 for the evening service and location + feel. A traditional church building can cramp your style immediately, especially if you doing church differently from the past. I would suspect that includes “where” we worship as well as “how” we worship. I appreciate your post and desire for feedback. It shows a humility and oneness with the people. I’ll be praying for you brother.
- Rich c/o ‘98