I am slightly agitated by an “Atlanta” based church planting conference that claims to have “the most influential and prolific church leaders from across the country.” I say slightly agitated because we are so busy preparing for the Grand Opening of The Courageous Church in 13 days that I don’t quite have time to be very agitated. However, I figured that I wouldn’t even have time to be slightly agitated in a few weeks so I wanted to speak my peace on this issue now.
If you take a quick look at the church planting link above, you will notice what I think is something very peculiar – it looks like a gathering of a cool white male fraternity. Hear my heart, I’m not saying that those white dudes aren’t “prolific” or “influential” like the site claims – I know several of those guys and respect them a great deal. My beef is that this conference presents itself to be a national conference for all types of church planters, but that just rings hollow in my book. I know 100s of awesome church planters of every nationality and hue imaginable that are doing HUGE things all around the country (and the world).
A church planting conference that suggests it is for everybody should at least make a feeble attempt at diversity. Heck, even one or two non cool white dude speakers would be progress, but this conference is a big, fat 0 for 20.
I’ve raised this beef with other conferences before and got two responses that went something like this,
1. “Well Shaun. I really don’t know any Black or Latino or Asian or (fill in the blank) pastors and I really invited pastors that I know. Also, we don’t support women pastors so that is why we don’t have any female speakers.”
2. “Well Shaun. We only invited speakers that we thought would be a draw and we just don’t know any Black or Latino or Asian or (fill in the blank) pastors that would draw people. Also, we don’t support women pastors so that is why we don’t have any female speakers.”
I’m not even going to take the time to dissect how lazy and disrespectful those comments are. Remember, I’m only slightly agitated.
Would I learn something at this conference? Of course I would. You would too.
However, I won’t be going. I have certain standards for myself, for my family, and for the people I lead. This conference falls below that standard. Maybe next year?
{ 62 comments }
I’ve been digging your blog lately- keep it coming.
And don’t be fooled, “The Christian Brothers Inc.” company that they have linked as a partner isn’t what you’re looking for either.
Right on Shaun. Very sad.
go ahead and preach that stuff. i’m not from ATL so i only know about this before i was directed here. i respect and concur with your stance. blessings to you, brother.
Amen, brother-AMEN! Keep speaking the truth ;) I can somewhat relate to what you are saying as a woman who has been called to ministry, and is not typically embraced as such in my heritage or most of the Christian circle. I am more than slightly agitated about that ;), but have to leave much of that to God :) It has and continues to be quite a journey…
Blessings on you and the Courageous church as you inch ever closer to the launch!!
Preach it brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hmmmnn….interesting observations, Shaun.
Pax
J
Good thoughts, well said. Speak truth and serve strong.
go on super-faith, champ-o-licious.
Shaun,
Feel your frustration. Felt it for years.
I don’t think it’s all that healthy or helpful to call the conference out by name.
Unfortunately though, you don’t need to call it out by name. You can throw a dart at that wall and hit a million other conferences that lack the fruit of the good work of Diviersity.
Sadly, this is the reality for just about every Christian Leadership Conference around.
There is really only a small handful of “Diverse” conferences that do the work of finding voices that need to be heard.
Reality is that this is not new, it stems from “within” the church and is only reflected on stages like this.
That’s why I’m grateful for groups like Youth Specialties and CCDA.
That’s why I’m grateful for churches like Courageous.
Not attending is great.
But creating and leading “Another Way” is where I choose to give myself.
Much Love.
Shaun,
Thanks for bringing this up. I am working on relocating to an area in Detroit that is 45% Latino and 35% African-American. The population in Detroit, for example, is 86% African-American. The population of many urban areas is predominantly non-white.
My guess is that they picked a lot of suburban church planters without even thinking. A nice look at the God’s Politics blog, for example, should give them a clue of many non-white pastors who have planted churches (Eugene Cho immediately comes to mind).
Eh. Now I’m slightly agitated too. :-)
Thank you. i am upset by the same things.
I agree that this conference does seem a bit biased. Looking at their site makes me think of the same old same old churchey conferences that take your money, give you a packet of information & encourage you to join countless mailing lists. As for the comments on women pastors. I think you should read this. http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html
Hey Shaun-
I see your point and agree with it.
I have an issue more with this whole “conference this conference that” mentality I see more and more amongst pastors. As a layperson, I understand the value of some conferences. I have observed so many pastors talking about going to this conference and that conference I wonder, um, what about their congregation? Noticing a trend of pastors going to more and more conferences concerns me. A pastor friend told me that it has become a status symbol/bragging right amongst pastors he knows as to what conferences they have been to or speak at. Just sayin’
Praying for your church launch!
Wow… mouthful pastor Shaun. I hear ya’ in what you are saying. It seems to go the same on both side of the cultural church track. :-)
For Eric Darnell (and everyone really)
Another opinion on Women in Leadership from NT Wright
http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/pdf_files/wright_biblical_basis.pdf
Here are some
Eric Mason, Thabiti Anyabwile, Voddie Baucham, Francis Chan, Rodney Woo
All non-Anglo’s with Degrees and Street Cred. Good theology, great ministries.
I find I know less about many Asian and Hispanic pastors because I don’t speak their native tongue.
Either way, what you have been told is we “only operate in the Good Old Boys Club,” “We only play with the cool kids,” or ” I am not willing to grow and go outside of what I know.”
As for ladies as pastors … Can’t dig it as I don’t see Scriptural support.
I totally agree with you. As a matter of fact, I started writing an article about this very issue after attending a similar conference here in ATL a couple of years ago. Don’t get me wrong, the conference was fantastic, but I couldn’t help but wonder why there was hardly anybody there that looked like me (or any other ethnic group for that matter), whether in the audience or on the panels.
This is definitely a hot-button issue for me, especially since I came out of my shell a few years ago of attending conferences that did the opposite and featured mainly black pastors. Coming out of that comfort zone, I’ve realized that we all have so much to learn from each other!
Just a couple of weeks ago I thought about picking up my article again and submitting it to some magazines. The article is called “Does ‘Relevance’ Have a Color?” (working title :-).
Great points here! Definitely something for the body of Christ to think about.
plenty of pastors who are not white, at least 30% of the population is non-white already… most speak English, too… and if the organizers don’t know any, get to know them! if they don’t know, ask!
and not every person on the platform has to draw a crowd, so an organizer can be more selective about their goals, which i hope is more than to draw a crowd.
I agree that we have ignored the reality of what church is like worldwide. Worldwide (whether you agree with it or not) there are many female pastors as well as obviously many pastors of other nationalities. In the Chinese underground church at least half of the churches are led by women. This church is growing exponentially, so I don’t see how we can argue with it – obviously the Spirit of God is moving. Many missionaries are church planters around the globe and many of these missionaries are female. This is reality. Whether we agree or not is almost irrelevant. It just is. It’s time we quit arguing over who can proclaim the gospel!!
Regardless, there is much we could all learn by hearing from one another – across the lines of gender and race and nationality. I have been on two church planting teams. I think I have some experience to offer that would be helpful – I think my perspective as a female would be useful if someone would just listen. The same could be said of different races and certainly different nationalities.
To ignore the experience of those that are “different” is really unwise in my opinion. God has given us this diversity as a gift.
Here is a differing view on women in ministry by a very respected egalitarian:
http://www.godswordtowomen.org/bilezikian.htm
just curious…I wonder what people would think of this post if ‘white people’ was replaced with ‘black people’…
…think it would come off just a tad racist?
Hey Shaun didn’t we have this same Conversation last year? As a matter of fact that is how I found your site (lol). The sad thing is that we will probably be having this same discussion next year, and the next. And the flip side of this is that our “brothers” are doing the exact same thing with their conference. We say Sundays at church is the most segregated day of the week as if its no big deal. Until we stop talking about it and actually do something its not going to change. Sometimes I wonder if we are not invited to participate because we don’t show up. And when you really think about it “we” may know a billion diverse speakers (because we actually look into it”, but most of the people I know in leadership within my circle have never heard of Craig Groeschel, Mark Beeson,Perry Noble or Bill Hybel. So I can assume that many of them have never heard of many of the Black, Hispanic or Asian leaders I may know.
The lightbulb moment for me was after meeting Mark Demaz and he said how intentional we have to be about creating diversity. The area in which we now minister is 98 % Black! We will have to be very intentional about creating a church for all people. Until we start being intentional about creating conferences for all, church for all, friendships with all….nothing will change. And that includes in how we do music, relay our brand, communicate (not everyone who is unchurced has access to the technology we all take for granted) etc.
Shaun,
As long as you and other black ministers are focusing on what white churches or black churches are doing, you’re missing what God is doing. It’s great that you’re planting a church in an area that needs God now more than ever; but if God is not a respector of persons, neither should Christian leaders be. You have a point, but it’s from a colored filter, not God’s viewpoint.
Live in the Kingdom, not the past, my brother. God is using you for great things – focus on that and don’t get distracted by the hype. It’s not about big churches anymore, it’s about knowing God’s heart for you. Sermons and pagentry don’t change lives – what you are doing does. Be who you are called to be and let God judge the Church.
I wonder if this blog post was posted now to generate some controversy and publicity/page views right before the launch of your church. Hope it helps!
I’m praying for you and your church, Shaun. I’m also praying for the ‘good ole boys’ club of young, white suburban church planters and the cottage industry that has sprung up selling stuff to it.
For example, I signed up for a Nelson Searcy mailing list on his or his company’s website. Soon after, I was receing two or more emails EVERY WEEK from Nelson attempting to sell me on various packages, books and ‘systems’ to grow my church…because Nelson is a “church growth expert”. It came across as smarmy and focused only on getting more people in the seats versus what really matters. Not trying to call Nelson out as I’m sure he does great stuff, but the method and way it was presented was just like (if not worse) than many secular internet marketers.
Either way, please be careful to not place ‘diversity’ too high on a pedastal. It is important, yes. But boycotting a conference based on the color of the skin of the presenters doesn’t move the problem forward…it may even take us all a step backwards. How is all of this viewed by a non-christian?
Good luck and I will be praying for your launch!
dont know what to say, shaun.. i can see their point but i can see yours too, and i’m leaning to your side.
seek God’s counsel, do what you think is right, and you’ll be blessed. what does Gary say about all this business?
can’t wait to worship with yall on the 11th :)
im honestly curious —- how diverse is the Courageous Church staff & launch team? specifically id be curious to know how many white people did you select to be part of your core team?
i am a long time reader of your blog… and you’re one of those guys who i both want to love & kick in the teeth. how you can possibly get it so wrong & so right seemingly at the same time blows my mind.
to be honest, over the months that ive read your blog YOU have come across racist several times & it frustrates me to no end that you call out white people for what you assume to be shortcomings & ignorance & so on & so forth when your narrow view seems to only see color & minority.
frustrating? yes.
love your vision for Courageous Church & believe that God will do great things both in spite of and because of you? yes.
and regarding “white people” versus “black people” i think shaun would be just as pi$$ed if it was an all black conference that excluded whites and other races.
we can all learn from each other. that’s the point.
Shaun – i have to admit, when i saw the line-up, i didn’t even pay attention to the fact that they were all white. my first thought was that they were mostly SBC.
having been to that conference a couple of times and meeting the mountain lake crew, i can’t imagine it was intentional. it’s a good conference- not just because of the speakers- but because of the connections and friendships you make. but you’re right- it lacks diversity- and not just this year.
we need guys like you pointing this out because guys like me don’t even notice. i wish i did. maybe i will. but it doesn’t always occur to me. there are so many great church planters out there with all types of backgrounds we can learn from.
thanks for raising awareness my friend.
Thank all of you for your comments. I am about to steal a few moments to respond to a few that raised some questions.
-Shaun
“Well, I could be wrong, but I believe Diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used in the Civil War era…”
Hey Jarrett,
I think it takes people coming at this type of issue from several different angles to really bring about progress.
While I share your observation that nearly every leadership conference lacks diversity, nearly every “church” conference that is playing and marketing itself to a national audience has at least a tiny bit of color and gender diversity.
Catalyst, MegaFest, the Creative Church Conference, Willowcreek, and others are aware of the value that this adds and are ensuring that they don’t have monolithic group of speakers made up of one race and ethnicity. They may still have work to do, but they’re trying.
-Shaun
Thanks Shaun. I appreciate the word. I know church planters of other races and ethnicities besides me (a white guy!) and I have the same desire to see more balanced platforms out there that reflect what is really going on in the planting world. You have spurred some thoughts (and even some emotion) on this and for that I thank you!
Jim, Jarrett, Jan, and others -Here are my thoughts and theology on the issue of women in ministry:
http://www.shauninthecity.com/blog/2008/07/how-does-our–1.html
Hey Avril!
Go for it! I’d love to see your article.
-Shaun
Hey Jake,
I’m not talking about white and black man. Diversity is much more colorful and beautiful and beneficial than that. This conference, unlike many others, has zero people of color from any nationality and no women whatsoever.
I am not playing the proverbial race card bro – I am making a very real observation.
-Shaun
Larry,
Your comment was well intentioned, but pretty goofy man. I’m not living in the past bro. I am talking about a conference that hasn’t even happened yet. This conference is a national conference for church planters that claims to have the best and brightest in the church planting world in its speaker lineup.
I just think that their claim doesn’t quite match the reality of their speaker lineup and that a conference that is for all people should have some level of diversity.
I could go there and cheerlead the entire thing and pretend like I don’t feel this way. I could also not go and not say anything.
I personally feel like using my platform in this way benefits everybody.
-Shaun
Hey Jameson,
I didn’t post this to stir up controversy and blog hits for our launch. That won’t help us with our launch in any real way at all. If you read my blog for a while, you’ll see that I always stir stuff up :0)
B (Brandy),
What exactly did I say in this blog post that you think is racist and causes you to want to kick my teeth in? I think I like your style! Wanna be on our launch team?:)
Shaun,
Perhaps this conference is more of what you are describing… http://www.exponentialconference.org/
I hear your heart and can see what you a referencing by the language. It is my hope and prayer that a diversified body of Jesus Christ would catch the vision to come together and plant healthy, reproducing churches.
Brian
Whew!! I was thinking, “I know he thinks “B” is me.”HA!
To those who wonder, Shaun isn’t planting The Status Quo church. It’s The Courageous Church and sometimes you have to have the courage to say things that no one else is saying. You don’t do this to “stir the pot”, but to progress, expand and enhance His Kingdom. Maybe, just maybe, you’ll wake someone up who wasn’t aware these kind of actions are offensive to a great many.
B, I’m a white guy :-).
Shaun,
You know that I feel you on this subject.
I think that it is time that we form a solution to this problem.
What do you say?
Saun, this is why I follow you on twitter! Well, my own thoughts as a Hispanic (Reformed)guy come from a few places. I have been blessed by living and dead white guys. That isn’t to say I haven’t found great guys of color who speak on these subjects, but I haven’t found them…yet. I am gald to see that there are many and hope to find them soon. As for this conference, well, is God using these guys to do what they are at this conference to talk about? I also agree with DJ Chuang that they should be open to more than just drawing people. As for women in ministry, I take the complemenatarian position, but find it is not as confining as many think it is. These pastors cannot do it alone. They need strong, godly women to help them reach women that the Pastor wouldn’t be able to. Also, it would seem that these Church Plantors may have wives that might have a thing or two to share with the wives of the attendees.
http://jobsearch.about.com/od/topjobsdb/a/bestsites.htm
YOu can forget the lat link I sent you (unless you are looking for work!) but here is a link to an article that some might find helpful on the subject of women in ministry.
http://www.cbmw.org/images/onlinebooks/rbmw/principles_to_use.pdf
why you stirring trouble?
:)
These are the conversations that Christians refuse to have.
“Shhhhh… Don’t talk about it… we like our people and our friends and our groups and our styles and our status.”
So, I admire a person courageous enough to talk about it.
Man,
Shaun… no matter what you do to chase after God’s heart, there will be people who will find a way to make you silent. It sickens me that our egos and theology has us so choked up by the bootstraps that we can’t see these barriers and do something about them… NOW!
It’s topics like these that keep unbelievers just that… unbelievers. And honestly, I don’t blame them.
It ANGERS me to see how content we are as Christians with our little “white” worlds and “black” worlds… it’s so stupid!!!
God, may our love be authentic!
May the world SEE our LOVE!!! And not just hear about it in a message.
And even if no one else bothers to listen to your heart concerning topics like these, Lord, I will.
Hey Shaun: Right on man…I am white..but not so cool and am planting in a non-white, non-cool, multiethnic situation and I have often felt the exact same way as you!
And as a side note I can list about Fifty Asian Church planters in Manila who could teach all of us about 50 things….
Great discussion going on. Love what you said, Jan…I imagine the whole women in ministry will always be a very hot topic, but I do pray and long for the day that we wake up and allow all men and women to use ALL of the gifts God has given them to serve in His kingdom, because that is the way He intended it-whether you agree with that or not.
We might as well get on board! :)
It boils down to the premise of “Embracing Diversity vs. Tolerating Diversity!” If there is a culture of embracing diversity; there will be some thought and attempt to have diverse representation.
The premise of “Embracing Diversity vs. Tolerating Diversity” is not only a problem with church conferences… but rather the church as a whole.
I did a blog post talking about Embracing vs. Tolerating Diversity over at Anne Jackson’s blog last year entitled “Church Diversity Sucks!” http://bit.ly/WjRL5
Side Note: You pulled out the “We Serve White’s Only” Sign! ;-)
Best and brightest???
When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: 8″When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. 9If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this man your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. 10But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all your fellow guests. 11For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
De Colores!
Dude! Love you. Love what you’re doing. Keep up with you. I DO think you were a little unfair on your comments about our conference. We at churchplanters.com love everyone, not just white males. All church planting spouses come FREE to our conference, regardless of gender. Probably 20% of our conference will be multi-ethnic, and we don’t think of people as white, black, whatever, brown, or whatever. We just invite different influential leaders each year to our conference. This year, they happen to all be white. Next year we already have plans for a couple of my African American brothers who will be speaking. Just not this year. It just turned out that way. Don’t judge us by the color of our skin! Show me some love!If you’re interested, I’d even love to comp you and you team FREE tickets so you can check it out first hand. We’d love to invest into your church in that way! Drop me an email and we’ll even do coffee…
Shaun, I feel you bro! I grew up and still am growing amidst racial diversity. One thing I have noticed is that in Church World, diversity is a very real, very serious issue. It seems as though if you don’t look a certain way or preach a certain way, you are not widely accepted. Christianity has such a mainstream bug stuck up its behind and is so clouted by the celebrity of the Andy Stanleys and Perry Nobles that we don’t even see Jesus. My heart goes out to you & my prayer is that Courageous Church sets a standard for diversity in Atlanta!
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/by-topic/african-american/december-19-2008-interracial-churches/1734/
Hey Shawn,
Thank you so much for your very kind and generous response. We aren’t judging you or your great conference by color. We are making a very real observation.
I actually attended the conference last year and learned a lot. I am sure that everyone that attends this year will learn a ton too. I actually love the speaker lineup you have and could tell that thought went in to forming it.
We also know that you charge way less than other conferences and are generous to spouses. Shawn – we know that you are a good guy, that Mountain Lake is a good church, and that you all do awesome work. I will make these thoughts known publicly.
I just want you to know that outsiders that see the speaker lineup feel that the lack of ethnic diversity in a national conference like this is problematic. Your kind comment to me revealed what I think the problem is – diversity does not happen on accident Shawn. Particularly in settings that are not naturally diverse, we have to actually decide we want it and work toward it.
I accept that you do not think of speakers in terms of black, brown, white, etc., but we must understand that diversity brings about a greater perspective.
Finally, you don’t need a Black man to speak about inner city ministry or hip hop, you can have a Black man, or a Latino man, or an Asian man speak about the same core topics that you have any random White guy speak on – vision, finance, marriage, portable solutions, etc.
Thanks for your time man.
-Shaun
maybe God has but the ball in your court to start something Shawn.
That is a lot to do but you have the spur udner your saddle, the actions in on your blog and your have the people’s ear.
pray about it. see what God says.
I appreciate you for bringing this topic to light. As an African American woman, I often feel “lost in the shuffle” when it comes to conferences I’d love to go to or send my husband to. Too often I feel that minorities are not represented well unless the activity is put on by a predominantly black denomination or group. I’d love to learn from many people, but race is still a huge factor in ministry.
At the line of diversity & segregation and your effort to blend the two, use wisdom so to not ruining your ability to be successful there. Boycotting, accusing, assuming, etc. does not promote change. Find your way in, then change IT from the inside out, otherwise you become a critic like everyone else. I love the vision, just dont become what you hate. The best way I can describe this point is you would never yell a drunk who doesnt know the freeing, life giving Jesus Christ as Savior, you would love him to salvation Lord Willing and allow God plus your influence to work on his alcoholism. If your gonna change culture…. You gotta reach culture. Those men are mighty weapons like you, you could learn alot from them too. Stop yelling about the culture, Change the culture.
I’m mmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddd late to the party here and I’m not trying to stir up old discussions BUT its here so here I am. LOL! Anywho, I had a similar discussion on my blog about 6 months ago and WOW – similar response.
I lead at a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic church in Newport, RI of all places and I feel your sentiment to the fullest. But as I see what some of these people are doing with there conferences, churches, etc, I’m reminded of a conversation I had with my father-in-law. We were talking about people who want to build multi-cultural ministries and they were frustrated by the lack of minority representation at their churches. He asked someone, “how many black friends do you have?” Response was mumbled for a while before they said “a few.” He then started asking them “What is their wife’s name? Where do they live? How old are their children? What’s their favorite meal?” The answers got even more mumbled. Then he said, you don’t have black people (or any other minority) in your life, so how do you expect to reach them?”
Now, this doesn’t mean that these men and women were racist. It just means that they don’t actively seek relationships with people too different from themselves, so how do they expect to reach people different from themselves?
I could go on for days but this is your blog, not mine. You’ve got a fan in New England homie. You’re going to keep it going if I say so or not, but I’ll say it anyway – keep going bro.
Shaun,
I just read this, and as a {white} youth pastor at a 99.9% black church – these sorts of things bother me as well. My pastor and I talk often about how un-diverse the church. As you look at simple things such as book covers, stock pictures, etc – why is it usually only brady bunch looking kids that make the cover? (I work with MANY white churches, and their REAL students don't even look that "brady bunch." )
It bothers me. I fight for diversity. God is ALLLLLL about diversity – and so am I! How many people in America do you think have an idea of Heaven that involves everyone speaking English, singing Christ Tomlin songs, and using MacBook pros?
Father, forgive us….
Larry, I couldn't agree with you more. I would have also added that Shaun should go and show those other leaders that he is a powerful leader as well. You have a lot to offer people Shaun, but now you will never know if you could have impacted those church plant leaders.
Even though you come at it in a nicer way, I do feel that your post only caused more separation between whites and non-whites. In some it may breed hate. I will tell you what I tell my precious 6 year old son…that kind of hate is the same that hung our precious Jesus Christ on the cross. It has to stop and as a man of God you have to help pave the way…people are watching!
The average church planter in the world is an 18 year old Chinese woman.
Pretty cool to checkout the lineup and not only see diversity and women leaders strongly represented this year, but you're speaking as well. :) That a boy.