Just a few days ago I received one of the most disturbing, sickening, serious emails anyone has ever sent me. I’ve taken a few days to think about it. Wes Widner, a proud and fairly respected founder of a program for the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board, wrote me to express his frustration with my views (get in line Wes), but revealed a sick underbelly to his thinking that is downright extreme.
In his diatribe, Wes began to express his disgust with my opposition to the death penalty based on the outrageously high number of wrongful convictions of African American men all across the country. After first questioning how I could "follow a crucified savior" while being opposed to the death penalty, Wes went on to say something that folk have being saying for decades after lynching innocent black men.
Wes said, "I’d like to examine each of those cases and I imagine we would find that these innocent men aren’t as morally pure as you would like to believe."
Wes – I have a feeling that you aren’t as morally pure as you would like for me to believe. Executing men that aren’t guilty of the crimes they were tried for is called lynching. It’s personal to me. It’s personal to the families of the men in the picture above.
The thing is, though, that the risk of you being snatched out of your home, thrown into the local jail, separated from your wife and children, have your name ruined, wrongly identified as a criminal, railroaded in court, then shipped to a far away prison for a few dozen years with the threat of being strapped down on to a bed and injected with lethal poison is slim to none. You can give a wink and a nod to wrongful convictions and executions and say that you "would hardly consider it enough to prevent us from dispensing justice and, instead, continue to warehouse criminals, thereby giving them a free ride at the taxpayer’s expense" because you live in a glass house. You live in a very tiny, narrow-minded bubble that fails to acknowledge the real suffering of living, breathing people.
Your inference that executing innocent men is less heinous because of your personal judgment about their ranking on your moral purity meter is sickening. Oh Holy One, you speak as one who has not yet sinned. Please tell us your strategy. My bible translation says that "ALL have sinned and fallen short," but you make me wonder if it is a typeo and the "y" was left out. Does your tranlslation say, "Y’all have sinned and fallen short"? It sure seems that way.
Are you fleshing out the call of God to "do justice and love mercy" found in Micah 6:8 or are your most comfortable casting lots like others that were so comfortable executing the wrongly accused.
Here are 200 men that were completely exonerated because of the work of the Innocent Project after being wrongfully convicted and imprisoned for as long as 25 years.
I am pretty sure their families would disagree with you. I do.
{ 22 comments }
Shaun,
It seems to me that we have an extremist on our hands. How strange indeed for a “Christian” to think that he could justify the death penalty by appealing to our salvation through Christ’s death–twisting, of course. This is the worst kind of abuse too, for many fall for the reasoning because it is “biblically-based,” etc. I haven’t really thought about the death-penalty issue too much lately, although, in the past, I leaned conservative, thinking that the death penalty could be justified in special circumstances. However, I’ve sort of gone “liberal” lately, and I think that the case you make against illegalizing the death penalty is about as good as can be made. As a white man, I’m sure that my perspective is different, for I just don’t know of any cases in which an innocent man has been put to death: it’s just not the type of thing that comes up over dinner for us.
What I think is especially reprehensible is that this man would appeal to the “they’re not as good as you think” argument. No one is claiming these men to be saints who are innocent of such crimes, just that they aren’t murderers, rapists, or any other offender worthy of death. There is a big difference here, obviously. Nevertheless, when someone is used to getting away with whatever he wants by quoting some Bible texts out of context, then they’ll just play da’ fool once light comes there way, as happened to this man.
I’m not fully sure that the death-penalty should be wholly abolished, for I’ve seen problems engendered by a state having abolished it. But this man’s thinking is deluded and despicable, a disgrace, indeed.
Shaun, please don’t think that Mr. Widner’s views represent Southern Baptists just because of programs he is affiliated with. I know that you know that, but I want to make sure that your readers know this, too. Although I can’t really say much without reading his original email to you, I have no reason to question your judgment on the matter. In the short time that I’ve been acquainted with you, you’ve shown yourself to be strongly opinionated but never reactionary. That said, I can only hope that Widner simply chose his words and logic poorly rather than that these statements accurately reflect the condition of his heart.
As a former prosecutor, the After Innocence documentary changed my life. I commend and affirm what the Innocence Project is doing for wrongly convicted inmates nationwide. And I commend your stance on the death penalty brother. Blessings.
Brother John
Hey Lance,
Thanks for your comment man. Here’s the thing – I am not a liberal. I am a very moderate dude and respect that the Death Penalty is the law of the land. However, several states (moderate and conservative ones @ that) have placed a moratorium on the death penalty because of very high number of wrongful convictions.
It’s too easy to stand outside and say, “Big Deal. We have to keep executing guys even if a few innocents are killed.”
Dwight,
Thanks for your comment man. Let me say that I completely agree with you that this young man does not represent all Southern Baptists. My concern with his perspective is, though, that he is a very proud, visible Southern Baptist and holds such extreme views.
I fully understand that people choose the wrong words, but Wes would have to have chosen a lot of wrong words in this case.
The truth is that some of us really feel the way we say we feel.
Hey John,
I appreciate your perspective as a former prosecutor. It certainly adds a lot to what we’re discussing.
-Shaun & Crew
ugh. dunno if you saw it, but i posted about my struggles with capital punishment a while back. i still struggle with it.
the *only* thing i have a problem with, and we’ve talked about this before, is that this is a racial issue rather than a human issue.
i’m sickened by innocent men and women being in jail and on death row regardless of their race. i know you are too. yes, there are a disproportionate number of black men who have been wrongfully convicted. but where do you draw the line for acceptable losses of innocent folks? if it’s just a few people that are wrongfully convicted/killed then is it any more OK than a larger number of folks? if all black men are exonerated would the problem just go away? i don’t think so.
anyway, keep your chin up and don’t let this stuff get under your skin.
I think it’s a huge issue all over the World. I don’t know anyone who has been put to death wrongfully, but I know that it has happened. I personally was wrongfully accused of a crime that landed me in jail for quite some time, and I’m a white dude, by birth. hehe.
I still don’t understand how one person could judge so easily. This must be one very Godly person… er… something.
Hey Shaun,
I think you are lending way more credence to Wes’s SBC ties than are due him. From what I see on his web site he may have completed NAMB’s Apologetics Instructor’s Course and has started his own ministry based on what he learned in the course. That doesn’t mean that the ministry he has founded has the SBC or NAMB’s endorsement or is in any way affiliated with them. They may not even now of its existence. (That’s just my understanding from Wes’s web site, feel free to add clarification if you have other facts)
Wes’s point is absolutely stupid and unchristlike. To think it is OK to take someone’s life just because they may have committed some other crime is absurd. I have affiliations with the SBC but I can tell you that I in no way think like this guy.
Scott
Shaun,
I know that you’re not a liberal, but the position of abolishing the death penalty is usually seen as a “liberal” position. I don’t really like the labels, but sometimes they’re helpful for classifying how we think.
On the whole reference to “Well, Big deal . . . ” argument, I don’t think that reasoning is good. I agree with you on the importance of making *sure* that no innocent people are given the death penalty;it’s a tough issue, which is why I usually don’t like to discuss it. Your project is obviously helpful and hopeful.
As for the *Southern Baptist* issue, is this guy from the SBC (Southern Baptist Conference) or some other *Baptist* organization, for there are so many of these days that confusion can creep in. The SBC has some radical members, so it wouldn’t surprise if someone from their group said something like this, although such a position is nothing even close to representative.
Wow. That must have been some email.
Love your passion. And courage.
Not to sure if this blog post seeks to win the brother as much as expose your disagreement with him.
It is indeed my hope your passion (and blog) as pastor will not only challenge, but win the Wes(s) of the world because your words are always seasoned with a measure of grace.
Takes as much courage to love, as it does to expose. Love ya bro!
Hey Scott,
I understand that all groups and denominations have people with varying perspectives. My rationale in mentioning his SBC roots and pride is to show that this guy is not some random keyboard warrior, but has a foundation with a specific church and a specific denomination.
Thanks for your feedback man.
Shaun
Hey Milan,
I always appreciate your feedback man.
You have told the truth indeed.
Shaun
This guy just goes to show there are bad seeds in every church and denom and I agree that pointing out his SBC ties does show that he’s not some guy that’s way out there in his theology. Still very sad statement on his part.
Saun,
I NEVER said that executing an innocent man is acceptable or excusable. And I am really disappointed you decided to misuse my words in a manner I never intended AND took so long to notify me of your blog entry. You like to represent yourself on here as righteous but your actions in this debate are anything but.
If you would like to start from the top and discuss separately the CONCEPT of the death penalty and then the APPLICATION of the death penalty, then I’d be more than happy to oblige but this blog in contrast with the conversation we had via Facebook PM shows me that you are more interested in gossip than the truth and more interested in causing pointless controversy and tilting at windmills of your own making than in a conversation aimed at the ascertaining and production of true beliefs.
Shaun, I’d like to be mad at you but sadly, your actions here mimic your actions on Ed Stetzer’s blog (http://blogs.lifeway.com/blog/edstetzer/2008/08/politics-evangelicals-and-barn.html) and both show how immature and perverse you are when it comes to personally attacking your brothers in Christ over issues you “feel strongly about”. Perhaps you should learn how to check those feelings so that they don’t lead you to falsely accuse your brothers of racism (something you are all too prone to do) simply because they paint out (in a painfully obvious way I might add) that your conclusions are simply wrong.
To the rest of you.
I’m appalled that you would be so quick to judge me without either having seen the transcript of the conversation Shaun and I had OR having asked me, personally.
I did not flippantly say “Big Deal. We have to keep executing guys even if a few innocents are killed.” However, my point was/is that the death penalty IS a cornerstone of Biblical justice and no one who claims to follow the savior of the world (made that way by the ultimate death penalty) can be against the concept of the death penalty and remain consistent within their views as a Christian.
Yes, I could have worded my arguments a little better, however since none of you have, to my knowledge, seen the original transcript I find it ironic that some of you would say that “Wes would have to have chosen a lot of wrong words in this case.”
The fundamental difference is that I was talking about the CONCEPT of the death penalty while Shaun apparently cannot make a distinction between that and the APPLICATION of it.
As many of you on here have pointed out, the application of it in our country is appallingly inconsistent and ill-applied in many cases. However it’s mis-application ought not to be a reason for us to throw it out completely instead of working to fix it so that the ones who ARE truly guilty (and convicted “beyond the shadow of a doubt”) are dealt with in a timely fashion so that justice is done without needlessly dragging on until a nature does what the state is entrusted with doing.
Shaun; I’ve been called a lot of things, but this is the first time I’ve ever been called a racist and I’m still not sure where the train of logic that lead you there jumped off the rails and went mud bogging to bring you to that conclusion. I’m also not sure where lynching came into our original conversation; Why add that into the public (mis)representation of our conversation unless you are intentionally being dishonest and attempting to mar the character of someone you otherwise claim is your brother in Christ?
Dear Mr. King:
I would be very interested in reading the entire email that Mr. Widner sent you. So far, it seems like you’ve taken a few lines and used them to construct your “case” against him. Run the whole email, THEN state your position. Let’s see how things shake out then.
“The thing is, though, that the risk of you being snatched out of your home, thrown into the local jail, separated from your wife and children, have your name ruined, wrongly identified as a criminal, railroaded in court, then shipped to a far away prison for a few dozen years with the threat of being strapped down on to a bed and injected with lethal poison is slim to none.”
Just out of curiosity, what is the risk of that happening to someone today?
Seriously, what are the statistics you are basing your emotional plea off of because I think you are simply making things up in order to prove your point.
This is where my point of “not as morally pure” come in. What are the chances of a man who is minding his own business being entangled in a life-or-death struggle?
I know there are some cases and I, too, respect and laud the efforts of organizations like “The Innocence Project” in rooting out the perversions of justice.
However my point is that in many cases, like the recent scandal that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were championing involved a man, Sean Bell, who was, upon further inspection, definitely not the sweet innocent angel they made him out to be.
This is the sort of skewed and biased logic I find ironic when the men, like yourself, who are calling for the abolishment of the death penalty, somehow forget that God Himself is for the death penalty and spared not His only son who took it on our behalf.
If God didn’t even spare his own son in the name of justice, are you claiming that you know a better way that would have answered Jesus’s prayer in the garden before his death?
Hi all, I am an atheist friend of Wes. He is open minded enough to discuss anything with me without any personal attacks, which I find is very rare. He can definitely play the devils advocate in an argument regardless of sensitive issues. If someone asks “Do you believe in killing babies” Which is an appeal to emotion, you expect to get a very defensive answer that espouses the persons love and protection of babies. That’s how the question is engineered. To say anything else is a lure that you affirm the assertion. However, in a debate, you could either point out the err in the question, or you could ask for more detail in order to give the question a fair and unexpected response. That’s all Wes is guilty of: giving an unexpected response.
But really, what us atheists need more of is for Christians to fight over their differences, engage in more emotionally driven arguments, divide and disperse. So, carry on.
On a slightly unrelated note, Wes and I have found that this inline text method is somewhat lacking in debating complex subjects.
Wes, Eric, Anthony,
Thanks for your comments.
The comments that you have made here on blog, in direct messages to me, and the dozens and dozens of very surprising messages you have left on other peoples Facebook pages (that I am wondering if your friends know about), make it clear to me that you and I are on two different planets. I think that you and Anthony have more in common than you and I.
Eric – the comments that Wes made, that I quoted and he is not disputing, stand alone man. Dozens of conservative, liberal, black, white, and all of the above thinking people read those comments and found them to be despicable. Have you read some of the comments that Wes is making all over the internet? I assure you, bro, they are shocking.
I’m sure Wes is your friend and if you all want to defend the comments that Wes made here and other place – go ahead. I’m not sure that’s what friends do.
Take care,
Shaun
Shaun,
You are a great writer! Always have your facts straight and tell the truth!!!!
How can I be apart of the “crew” of Shaun and crew? . . . I’m just saying.
BW.
I know noone in this whole squabble that I am aware of… unless Wes is the nut who called Dr. White dishonest because Dr. White was quoting William Lane Craig… on the topic of Molinism… as espoused by William Lane Craig…
unless the two Wes' are one and the same, I have never heard of anyone here.
If the Wes' are the same, then I would be biased against him at most.
But, I read this blog post and came to the conclusion that Shaun is misrepresenting Wes.
The title of this thread: "Is Lynching Ever OK? Wes Widner Says Yes!"
Problem: Wes never said anything about race and never said anything about Lynching.
Shaun took a hyper-charged term "lynching" and accused Wes of supporting it.
To justify his unwarranted Hyperbole, he made a massive equivocation between "lynching" which is vigilante murder with those innocent people wrongly sentenced to death through our judicial system.
Lynching does not equal (=/=) innocents wrongly convicted and sentenced to the death penalty.
The two are not comparable by any intellectually honest standard.
Yes: "Wes is the nut who called Dr. White dishonest ", see: http://realapologetics.org/the-virtual-hall-of-no…