This week I am going to be addressing a series of critical questions that I receive regularly in my email inbox. I live in Downtown Atlanta and The Courageous Church is launching in the downtown/Midtown area of our city in 173 days. Since beginning our $20 and a Prayer campaign last week, the question I have received more than any other has been:
How does/will The Courageous Church respond to the issue of homosexuality?
While I think all churches need a very clear, nuanced answer to this question, it is doubly important that a church that claims to be courageous and is located in the area of our city with the largest population of GLBT men and women have a clarified approach to the topic and not simply pretend like it doesn’t exist.
If you get a chance to check out our website @ www.Courageous.tv and read some of our guiding questions and values, you will better understand where I will be coming from. Feel free to leave your comments and questions.
Five distinctive things about our church will guide us in our answer to this question.
- Our mission as a church is to Build Courageous Followers of Jesus that Love God, Love People, and Prove It. (Homosexual men and women are still people.)
- The first guiding question of our church is – What Did Jesus Do? (Jesus loved all people – particularly outcasts – while simultaneously calling them to a higher standard of living)
- The second guiding question of our church is – What Does the Bible Say? (I feel pretty strongly that the Bible is clear on the issue of homosexuality.)
- Our church feels called to take a stand for issues and people that others have forgotten about or too afraid to touch. (Homosexuality is one of those issues in our culture that most churches are afraid to touch with grace and intelligence.)
- While the issue of homosexuality is relatively important, it will not become a distraction from our mission and from issues that we deem to be in critical need of attention – like salvation, the world hunger crisis and slavery.
Here are my thoughts:
It is my deepest desire that ALL PEOPLE feel welcomed and loved as a part of our church – including homosexual men and women. We are fleshing out what that really means and how we prove that we love all people and not just say that we love all people. This is the benefit of being a church plant that still has time to create new culture before launching.
While we can debate it until the cows come home, it is my strong belief that the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus did not address the issue of homosexuality in the Gospels because it was not an issue in need of clarification for the culture He lived in.
I do not believe that all gay people are born that way and have had enough conversations and counseling sessions with gay men and women to know that some people become gay over time. I also believe that some people are born with a genetic propensity to be gay that is hard or nearly impossible to overcome. I have seen young children (that were not abused or "exposed" to homosexuality) that seem to have major issues, sometimes biological, with gender confusion, etc. It’s real.
With that said, I ultimately view homosexuality as one sin in a world full of sin. My job is to love sinners and build them into courageous folowers of Jesus that Love God, Love People, and Prove It. I am a sinner. My sin is not homosexuality, but I have struggled with pornography and had a period in my life where I struggled with exaggeration and honesty in the name of status and comfort. These things can lead to our undoing as well.
I would not ordain or marry any men or women who have what I view as any obvious issues of sin, particularly if they are not trying to overcome this sin. The challenge is, though, that this immediately isolates gay folk that can go down the street to the church that embraces them and does not even view their homosexuality as a sin.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, insights, and criticisms on my thoughts. Let the conversation begin…
{ 68 comments }
you have a big AMEN from me!
you’ll face it in ATL. no doubt. especially in midtown.
my personal perspective:
sure i think it’s wrong. i think scripture is clear. but much of scripture condemns my actions as well even though i’m not gay.
homosexuality is no worse than any other sin. will i tell a gay person what i believe? sure, but in a loving way. will it affect my desire to be their friend? no. will it affect my desire for them to know Christ better? no way.
good topic, glad you’re thinking in this vein. we shouldn’t be afraid to tackle this subject as Christians. so many of us just want to sweep it under the rug.
Thank you for your transparency and for taking a clear stand on such a controversial Christian issue.
This is an extremely great topic and I apoligize in advance for this being a long response LOL. I once heard that the church is a hospital for sinners. Jesus never did address the issue of homosexuality in the Bible….not sure why exactly but I don’t believe it’s because it wasn’t present in his society. The woman at the well turned her life around AFTER she had a real encounter with Jesus. He didn’t condemn her for how she had been living. Church folks are so judgmental, and we haven’t been given the gavel.
People have to be able to have a REAL encounter with Jesus….we hear people talk about how He’s real, and we sing songs about it, but if you’ve never felt the true presence of the Holy Ghost, it doesn’t mean as much. An analogy I like to use is that we don’t get clean before we get in the shower– otherwise there would be no need.
If we can draw people in with the love of Christ, the Holy Spirit will do the convicting and the cleansing. It might take years, based upon people’s free will. I personally don’t see homosexuality as a greater sin that fornication or lying or cheating. Some people preach that “fire and brimstone” message ONLY when referring to homosexuality. So are they saying that if I’m straight and fornicating that I’ll get to heaven before someone who’s gay? I think not. God looks at all of our hearts and that will tell the story. Am I saying it’s ok? No, but then we need to start being consistent with helping people deal with ALL sin. And only God can do that. We are here to serve as ambassadors for Christ.
We’re so quick to try and run people struggling with the spirit of homosexuality out of the church, yet the liars and fornicators get to stay because perhaps they can hide their sins better…..WHAT!?! not too sensible to me.
You’re on the right track as far as your role in this whole thing. My granny always says the only behavior we can change is our own. God will handle the rest…if we allow Him to do so….
Now, to the genetic predisposition….don’t believe there is any evidence to support there being a gene for sexuality. Just like there’s no gene for intelligence. It very well may be linked to the genetic predisposition for some type of mental illness, but there’s no “GAY” gene LOL. Some people are sexually abused at some point in their life, and some just try it and get hooked. Someone once told me that it’s like crack, so don’t try it because you get hooked.
As far as your ordination of ministers, etc. I understand where you’re coming from, but is your belief aligned with Jesus? I’m not saying one way or the other whether it is or isn’t, but you’ve got to consult with him on that one. I have a lot of issues with the Old Testament and it’s teachings and how people like to use key words from certain verses and leave the rest of the context behind. If you’re not going to ordain the homosexual minister, then don’t ordain the one who stretches the truth or is sleeping with one of the choir members.. all I say is be consistent. There are some churches where it’s probably ok for you to “get some” every now and then…and honestly, I don’t believe Jesus directly addressed that either…if He did, please correct me- I’ve always questioned that one too. In whatever you do, just stay prayerful about how you should handle it. Great blog!
I think when approaching the issue of homosexuality and Christianity we have to first approach our task with grace.
When we create an environment of grace in the church…it is an environment where a person is loved and accepted. When people are loved and accepted then they are able to begin to deal with there sin issues.
As they begin to deal with their sin issues through being around fellow sin strugglers and being exposed to the Word of God in an incarnational way. People will begin to find that their sin can be overcome and they can begin to find healing and begin to live real life….instead of hiding behind the mask of their sin.
Hey Adam!
Thanks for your comments man. You are right. While some sins impact people and society differently, we cannot pretend like our sin is no big deal while focusing on the one we don’t have.
-Shaun & Crew
Hey Jolawn,
Thanks for your feedback. Pretending like the elephant isn’t in the room – particularly in Atlanta – is just plain goofy!
-Shaun & Crew
Hey TRJ!
Thanks for your comments. They were very insightful. Let me respond to two of your thoughts.
First off, I don’t believe that people are born “gay” in the sense that I think you are describing. However, I have met, counseled, and seen documentaries on boys and girls from all around the world that are biologically positioned to have major gender confusion and sexuality challenges. I’m not talking about a few dozen people, but in a world of billions, we have hundreds of thousands of boys and girls that are born with MAJOR genital issues, MAJOR hormonal imbalances, and more. I didn’t use to believe this, but I have seen it for myself and it’s something we have to consider.
Secondly, I agree with you that we cannot exclude people from marriage or ordination based on one particular sin alone. Both marriage and ordination are things to be entered into carefully, prayerfully, and after significant examination of character.
-Shaun & Crew
Hey Bill,
You are correct! Grace must rule in our church. The challenge is, though, that most gay men and women find it to be the opposite of graceful when we exclude them from marriage, ordination, and leadership right off the bat.
Your thoughts?
-Shaun & Crew
Shaun,
1. You are right on in how to handle it in the church. I think too often churches go off in one of two unhealthy (and unscriptural in my view) ways. One is to cast aside all that is said about being GLBT in scripture as cultural (like Gene Robinson). The other is to go the opposite extreme and make being Gay tantamount to torturing babies for fun (like Fred Phelps). These both do a great disservice to the Gospel.
2. I think that Jesus didn’t address it for the same reasons you desribe above. To say that homosexuality did not exist during Jesus time and place is to ignore history. Centurions were forbidden to marry and (much like Catholic priests) often had gay partners. Some scholars believe the Centurion in Matt. 8 asked Jesus to heal his gay lover, not son or servant as is often used in the English Bible. Some argue that this means Jesus didn’t view being gay as a sin, although I would say if Pais in Matt. 8 did infact refer to gay partner it simply meant that Jesus treated all of us sinners the same.
3. Curious on your views on the politcal questions surrounding the issue. Gay marriage, civil unions, inheritance rights, hospital visitation etc.
Hi Shaun,
Thanks for addressing this issue of homosexuality and your new church. I think this is a very courageous statement to make, especially in the south, as a black hetreosexual preacher, in the day in age where people are still being murdered in the name of God for being gay.
Nonetheless, I think it is incredibly valuable to continue fleshing out the reasoning behind your choice not to marrying gays. Noting that you would not ordain or marry any men or women with “any obvious issues of sin, particularly if they are not trying to overcome this sin” is a very dangerous statement, especially after acknowledging that we are in a “world full of sin,” where everyone is a sinner, including yourself.
This statement would lead us to the conclusion that you, not God, determine “obvious issues of sin”. It also infers that as the determinant you get to decide which “sin” is more dangerous/important/valuable/forgivable/acceptable (ie marryable) than another and that you have the insight as to whether or not someone is attempting to overcome a particular “sin”.
All of these assumptions are incredibly dangerous because as you know, only the person in question and God itself, really know what and how they are reckoning with anything. I am not encouraging you to marry gays, I am simply suggesting that you continue investigating the reasoning and sentiments behind this choice.
I also believe this to be a particularly important point of exploration because it may unearth some homophobia that would keep you from truly “taking a stand for issues and people that others have forgotten about or too afraid to touch” as you mentioned earlier.
This statement is a commendable step in the direction of loving all people as Jesus did. Yet it simultaneously creates a wall of judgement which others and alienates. It is very unfair to expect that people feel at home to focus on their relationship with God in an environment where they are consistently earmarked as deviant, sinner, outcast or other. Remember, it our analysis of the Bible which interprets Jesus as someone who loved “outcasts”. Jesus would never call them that. He would call them children of God.
I truly honor and acknowledge your desire that all people feel welcomed and loved as a part of your church. And the most essential ingredient of in order for that to happen is your leadership. By unearthing, addressing and surrendering to God the issues of your own judgement, you will create a church where love is the absolute way of being. Congregates will follow your lead, especially as you hold yourself and them, accountable, capable and able of living love as Jesus did.
I’ve just watched a documentary that I believe would be instrumental in helping you address these issues on the road ahead. “For the Bible Tells Me So” is a beautiful, honest and brilliant look at many of these questions. Please take the time to check it out.
Love and Blessings,
L’Erin
Hi,
I think that it is important for churches to be clear on the fact that homosexuality is a sin and that it is not the will of God that they remain in that lifestyle.
We may not be the Ultimate Judge, but we do have a right as Christians to speak out and against certain things. If we didn’t, then we shouldn’t have a pastor to preach to us about anything. If we didn’t, then how will we evangelize if no one wants to (or think it’s right that they) hear of (their) sin and to accept Jesus Christ. If no one was to make any judgements here on earth, then we should also forget our legal system which castes judgements daily. I’m not saying that Christians (or anyone!) should insult one another, but there are certainly tactful and precise ways to get one’s point across.
It is a great misunderstanding now in our free-for-all society that homosexuality should be accepted in the church. However, accepting something is much different from understanding something! We can understand as humans and as Christians that all have sinned, we are all sinners, we all need God’s grace daily, etc., but when churches go as far as accepting the lifestyle as morally right, we are moving far from the truth.
As another example, many people make the conscious life choice to commit adultery, and even attempt to appease their consciouses, make excuses, but scripture also shows that this is a deviation from God’s will for our lives, and also leads to destruction.
Again, we were all born sinners, yes, but we are not to remain in sin unless we have decided to risk our precious lives for hell.
This is also important for the homosexual to grasp. Yes, it’s okay that you pursue a relationship with God, yes attend church, etc, but in doing this, progression should be made, sin should not be condoned; and in knowing Jesus more, His word becomes clear to us.
I concur with your blog Shaun.
My only question is whether people are born gay. That is, although I have defended the notion that people are NOT born gay, I have no science to back it up. My previous belief was to look at nature– e.g., animals– to see if there was gay behavior there. To my surprise, I was told that it does happen where animals are born that way.
I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Crystal,
Most research into the animal kingdom points to periodic gay behavior among primates. They are not neccessarily born that way. In times of population crisis though they will release sexual energy through gay behavior. Also, submissive males unable to mate will do the same.
From a traditional Christian view, due to original sin, our natural state is sinful, thus it does not reveal much to find this in nature.
Hey DC,
I address your question a little more in one of my comments above. Let me know your thoughts.
-Shaun & Crew
L’Erin,
Thanks for your comments and encouragement. Your words were very, very insightful. I will watch the documentary soon.
Listen – I want to admit to you as I did on the blog that this issue is indeed one that I am still learning how to discuss and flesh out. Part of my desire to write this blog post was to learn from others how to approach the topic in a way that does not alienate and devalue people as humans.
I also agree that we are all indeed children of God and this should be the primary language that we use. My struggle is, though, that Jesus does use the word “sin” and “sinner” in reference to people. In one of the comments above, someone referenced “the woman at the well” and said that she was changed after her encounter with Jesus.
This is true. He also urged her to “Go and sin no more.”
Your thoughts my friend,
-Shaun & Crew
Shaun,
Not exactly. If for instance, science shows that dogs and cats can be “born” gay then that suggests that it isn’t behavioral? Whereas if this phenomena had not existed in nature, it would be clear that this is learned behavior.
DC,
If nothing else, the fact that it exists in some forms in nature shows us that this issue is nuanced and complicated. All behaviors are learned and are cultural in someway, but we tend to oversimplify our response to very complicated matters and very few things are as deep as our sense of sexuality.
-Shaun & Crew
Very clear stance on one of the watershed issues of the culture… Love People (all people… Prove IT!!!
Shaun,
That’s my point. It seems that this is more “nuanced and complicated” than I had originally thought. That is, I can still believe the Bible is a correct on the sin nature but not say emphatically that there is no “gay gene”.
The reason I think the distinction is important rests on people taking Christians seriously. If we say there is no “gay gene” but science and nature say otherwise, I think we look foolhardy.
But if we accept this as a possibility while pointing out that obesity and other ailments also are genetic, yet curable, we can have more of a dialogue with the GBLT community.
Shaun,
I applaud your courage in addressing this front burner issue and am impressed with your clear, gracious, biblical perspective on this issue.
So what would you do if a gay couple wanted to attend a marriage seminar or married couples group in your church?
Pastor King,
I just had a convo about this the other week and one of my mentors explained to me that homosexuality is no more a sin than anything else. This is an issue that I have been thinking about as my liberal Christian side cannot hate someone for their sexual orientation. I’ve actually had a lot in common (as a heterosexual male) with people who identify themselves as homosexuals. I think the lack of talk about it by Jesus makes it very simple and in many ways should be the way we as a Christians approach it. Its simply another sin. My major problem is Christianity’s hyperbolic treatment of the issue. Thank you for engaging this topic.
As a currently unrepentant homosexual black male who grew up in the protestant church, I am pleased to see this issue taken up so openly and earnestly.
I’m no expert on the Bible by any means, but I ‘m pretty sure there are a whole bunch of rather specific rules in books like Leviticus which, for whatever reason, have fallen out of favor in most church communities. My question is, how can any of us be sure the same won’t eventually happen with the community’s position on homosexuality?
I’m fairly certain that the prevailing Christian view of homosexuality as a sin will go the way of old views on female preachers, the inherent inferiority of the black race (sons of ham) and other biblical statements. This is for the best. If the church will continue to be viable and relevant, its approach to homosexual members will change.
While there can be no doubt that there are clear differences in the physicality of homosexual and heterosexual love (i.e. the sex act) I wonder what the scriptures would have to say about homosexual relationships that no longer involve sex (i.e. with seniors with no sex drive.) Is it still sin with no act?
Whether my homosexuality is learned or genetic or both, telling me a text, even in the Bible, forbids me to love someone, goes against practically everything else I learned in Sunday School. And it goes against the clear and present love I feel for my partner. A church that can only interpret such love as a sin, at best no more a sin than lust or lying or a host of other destructive behaviors…well that’s not a church for me…or the tens of thousands of others like me.
These are just a few thoughts I wanted to add to the conversation. Again, thanks for posting.
-Derek
Shaun~
I wish I knew you so I could give you a huge high five! Thank you for loving gay people. I think Jesus would have and did! Thank you for being HONEST about the sin and real about facing challenges associated with “truth in love”. When Courageous opens I hope I get the chance to come visit (I’m about 30 min. away)…..and I hope I see all kinds of sinners inside! After reading your post, I’m pretty sure you’ll point them in the right direction.
Hey Paul!
Thanks for your comment man. At another church, I witnessed a lesbian couple asked to leave a marriage seminar and they were honestly crushed and surprised. They never came back to the church after about a year of visiting.
I have not resolved in my mind how I would respond. You?
-Shaun
Hey Wil!
I am not sure that I agree with the notion that all sins are created equal. Murder and rape aren’t the same as lust of the mind are they? Even the Bible seems to suggest that some sins are an abomination while others are described less harshly.
With that said, I have generally lifted homosexuality up above many other sexual sins. However, I am open to evaluating why I do this and where this thinking comes from.
-Shaun
Hey Derek!
Thanks for your comments man. Your stance is an interesting one that I find to be one of the more challenging arguments. In a lot of ways, you are saying “Since we all do a lot of stuff the Bible says we shouldn’t do, what ground do you have to stand being against homosexuality?”
Your prevailing sentiment is that if you truly and honestly love someone that God must be OK with it. What if a man loves the wife of another man? I mean deeply…with all of his heart? Is that OK?
How about someone that has those feelings for a cousin? Is that OK?
-Shaun & Crew
Hello Crystal (a different one),
Thanks for your comments. Stay posted about some of our upcoming events later this year and our launch on 1-11-2009. We hope to see you there!
-Shaun & Crew
http://www.cousincouples.com/
just wanted to add some levity to the discussion… this site was brought up in one of my MS courses while discussing research means and methods.
i thought it was pretty funny, and no, i don’t think it’s ok!!
Shaun,
Thanks for taking my position seriously, and engaging in dialogue. However, I disagree with your summary of my position.
The thurst of my point is this, the Church itself has changed positions on certain issues (female preachers, is the one that comes to mind first, and further in the past, the biblical warrants for slavery). Different parts of the Bible are pointed to as evidence or counterevidence, and then the Church comes to some sort of consenus. It’s happened before, and I think it’s happening right now with homosexuality. If you look at the precendents, it seems to me that condemnation of homsexuality is on its way out. But you would know Church history much better than I.
There are plenty of ways to distort homosexuality by comparing it with incest, child molestation, or other “deviant” and destructive practices. The fact is they are not the same. That’s frankly pretty insulting to me, but I would say that the comparisons speak more to people’s ignorance on what a “gay lifestyle” actually means, and complete dismissal of what it could mean if the Christian community took a more accepting approach.
And I would go futher though, and say that human sexuality is something the Bible might not deal with comprehensively enough to be the only source you point to. If you’re going to bring in incest, well OK, what about getting married under 18, is that OK? What if the girl is 16 and they guy is 76? That’s fine? And what is a hermaphrodite supposed to do about their situation, choose a gender and then behave accordingly? And what about divorce? What about single parenthood? Is the Bible absolutely clear about all of this? Or do we find a spritual truth with other resources?
That’s all I really have to say. I’ll keep reading the blog, but I might not post any more responses.
Be well,
Derek
Hey Derek,
Thanks for your comments. Don’t shut down man. Your thoughts are very valuable to me and to this discussion.
The thing is, though, that the church has not come to a consensus on issues like “Women in Ministry.” The entire Catholic church is against it and many of the largest and most popular churches in this country have major limitations still.
I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that the Bible cannot be our only source of information for this discussion. Human biology has made this discussion very complicated and I think you will see my acknowledgment of that in some of the other comments. The issue of hermaphrodites is much more significant than many understand.
I did not compare homosexuality to incest or extra-marital affairs. All three of those topics stand alone and must be judged separately. What I was saying, though, is that the presence of deep, real love does not justify a relationship all by itself.
Let’s continue discussing this my friend!
-Shaun & Crew
Well I appreciate the invitation to continue to discuss, but I’ve said my piece really. And thanks for your clarification on Love and all that.
I’m sure there are other folks, more invested in the Black Church as an institution than I am, who will engage you further on this issue.
I’ll keep reading though…thanks
Shaun,
Thank you so much for addressing such a controversial topic on your blog. I believe that it is time for churches to begin to take a more active stance on homosexuality instead of preaching about it. There are sooo many misconceptions about GLBT individuals that the church community is so uninformed and do not know how to lead them to Christ. We know how to reach drug addicts, prostitutes, unwed mothers, but this has been the one group of people the church has failed to touch. Jesus always met people at their need. He did not preach condemnation but fogiveness of sins and love.I have been counseling GLBT individuals for about four years and some do want to get out the lifestyle. All it takes is love and planting of a seed.
STEPS CHURCHES AND INDIVIDUALS CAN TAKE:
1. GET OUT OF CHURCH INTO THE FIELDS!!!! GO INTO THE GAY COMMUNITY AND TELL THEM THAT JESUS LOVE THEM. (THERE ARE 3 RECORDED TIMES THAT JESUS WAS IN THE TEMPLE) HE WENT TO PLACES THE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DID NOT GO.
*REALIZE THE GLBT COMMUNITY IS MORE STRONGER TODAY THAN THE BLACK COMMUNITY!
2.GO AND PRAY FOR THOSE LIVING WITH HIV/AIDS. TWO WEEK AGO A 17 YEAR BOY TESTED HIV POS. CARRY MEALS TO INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE NOT MOBILE.
3. BE ABLE TO HAVE A DISCUSSIONW WITH THE GLBT COMMUNITY WITHOUT JUDGEMENT OR CONDEMNATION . GOD WILL GIVE YOU THE OPEN DOOR TO ADDRESS THEIR LIFESTYLE. BRING THEM TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST AND HE WILL DO THE REST. WE ARE NOT GOD!!!!! WE CAN’T CHANGE THEM!
HONESTLY,
IF YOU ARE A DISCIPLE OF JESUS CHRIST, YOU WERE COMMISSIONED TO PREACH THE GOSPEL AND HELP ALL!!! NOT JUST A SELECTIVE FEW! CHRIST DIED FOR ALL!
Hey…I saw where you were saying that you once had issues with pornography….how did you overcome it? The reason why I’m asking is because I have a friend who I believe is sexually addicted. He knows that he has a problem but doesn’t know what to do about it. It is hard for me to minister to him because 1)I’m not a man, so I’m not sure what I say actually relates to what he’s going through and 2)he is struggling with having faith in God. He attended church for a while, but got discouraged and stopped. He doesn’t believe that prayer or counseling will help him.
Do you know of any resources that could help him? (He is in the Atlanta area). Any help that you could give will be greatly appreciated.
Hey Laneitria,
Thanks for your comment and question. I hope you see the post from today on Overcoming Pornographic Addiction. Email me if you have any more questions.
Take care,
Shaun & Crew
Ok, I’m back…..
I skimmed back through the posting and a few of the comments and one of the questions that came to me was “why is this one of the first issues you feel you need to handle?” It seems as if people are okay if there is a church full of “heterosexual” people with issues but as soon as there’s wind of a homosexual, all of a sudden we need to handle it and pray it out of them.
How are you going to handle “heterosexuals” who have drinking problems or beat their wives or girlfriends? Why isn’t that on the forefront? How are you going to handle children who are abused? What about those struggling with drug addictions? Or the person who shoplifts? Why weren’t blogs written about those things?
It seems that particular subgroups of the human population have already been isolated as if they’re lepers or a hindrance to the Church’s mission. There are some “homosexuals” who are the BEST people in the world and are more like Jesus than “heterosexuals,” so how do you handle that? I don’t believe that sexual orientation has a direct influence on character.
If we teach love, we get it back. I’m not talking about tolerance, but just the genuine love of Christ. It’s up to Him to do the cleansing in people’s lives. We are not to convict people, but the Holy Spirit convicts. We are supposed to draw the people in with the love of Christ. But we all know that…..
I can truly understand why so many people stay away from the church because of the way they are treated. We isolate homosexuals, yet the man who is beating the devil out of his wife everyday is received openly– because he’s straight?? I pray that the Courageous Church does not become a place that isolates people who really love God despite their sexual orientation.
Hey TRJ,
Thanks for your very thoughtful comments. Not only do I share your hope that The Courageous Church not become a place that isolates people, but as the leader of this movement, I can say to you with confidence that this won’t happen. Now, because I am leading this church it is sure to fall short. However, we are giving these issues our best shot.
Let me address one of the questions you posed concerning why I would even discuss this topic as opposed to a myriad of other very serious issues. With 100′s of articles on here and nearly 1000 comments, I have discussed a ton of issues. However, this issue has garnered the most comments of any post. Most of them are very thoughtful.
From time to time I blog about topics that I hope will spark a healthy discussion and this is certainly one of them. When I wrote this article a few months ago, my thoughts on homosexuality and how our church approaches it were not that well-formed and I used this blog post to strengthen my thoughts on the issue. I am pretty clear where I stand on many of the other issues you listed.
Please feel free to keep holding my feet to the fire. I hope I am a better pastor because of it.
Shaun & Crew
Thanks for this post. Your comments are truly appreciated. Years ago I attended Redeemer & The Village Church in NYC’s Greenwich Village. We began an AIDS ministry there to the local residents-back when AIDS was primarily a gay disease. It’s been an amazing ride but by God’s grace Redeemer holds bi-weekly church services at the local AIDS hospice in the community!
Hey Ron,
Thanks for your comments man. We are trying to find a balanced, biblical approach to this and other issues.
Take care,
Shaun & Crew
LaNeitria,
Here is the best resource for your friend I think you will find:
http://www.purelifeministries.org/index.cfm
Very loving and many free resources as well as levels of counseling. All biblical based organization.
Mr. King,
May this find you and your crew in the best of health and moods. May God continue to use and bless you.
When addressing the issue of homosexuality, it would be wise to first address the purpose and meaning of sex. In finding the purpose and meaning of sex, hopefully through the grace of God, one can come to understand how homosexuality, sex before marriage, abortion, and contraceptives are to handled.
It is my belief that sex is a gift from God for us to give life, sustain life, and promote life. Sex is not a good to pursue because it feels good. Sex is a good in and of itself because creates a sense of unity and love that is fully expressed through birth of a child.
So, the question is really what is the purpose of sex. This question can be address with reference to Sacred text but we also have to appeal to reason given to us by God.
I hear ya and I could see how this could be a problem.
However, as I see it many of Christianity’s conundrums begin and end with their belief on the authority of scripture. Let’s say if Christians viewed Romans [1:24-26] as no more than the writings of a man named Paul as equal to that of, let’s say Martin Luther King’s “Letter From a Birmingham Jail” or no more or no less inspired than one of these posts you wrote and posted here on your blog–then I wonder if we’d be forced not to live with these contradictions.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but I get the impression that if the biblical record from Lamentations and Romans, for example, hadn’t been as explicit about male on male sex, then you and perhaps others, would accept gays with much more open arms.
I always say be true to yourself.
If your gut feeling tell you that accept gay people, and others with open arms without any equivocations–by all means go for it. But if not, still be true to yourself.
Shaun,
I do not have much to say, which is not unusual for me. But I wanted to commend you for starting and providing a forum for much needed dialogue on the subject of homosexuality. I, however, cannot find the words to express to you all of the hurt and pain that I’ve experienced due to my sexuality and the church. And while I want to have a better relationship with God, I don’t see that happening in anyone’s church.
Eloquently put, Shaun…. I loved the way you approached this issue that is largely ignored (or skirted around) by most churches.
You approached it with grace and love. Which is exactly the way Jesus taught up to treat people… with grace and love.
Blessings & Peace.
Wow. Wish I had jumped into this conversation earlier! What great thoughts. Shaun, you boldly step into one of the more controversial conversations a Christ-follower can have. In our community, this is an underlying conversation that is gaining some momentum. My only thoughts currently are a desire to see the church approach this as an issue of purity.
To unpack that fully requires way more than most are willing to read. But I can't help but believe that leading anyone (hetero or homo) to value purity in relationships is a great starting point. As a pastor, I'm more concerned about their heart, mind and spirit than I am the sin they are actively committing. Embracing purity points all of us in the right direction to weeding out the things in our lives that detract from His Glory.
Shaun:
I found your blog and church via your ad on Facebook.
I am gay and I can tell you, with no doubt that I was born this way.
If you spent one day walking in the shoes of a gay person, you'd know what sort of hatred and bigotry we face. Much of it is dished out in the name of God, the Bible, Jesus, Christianity — etc.
If you spent a year walking in the shoes of a gay or lesbian person, you would know that no one would CHOSE to face such discrimination and hatred. Nothing would be worth the bad stuff that I have faced as a gay person. Third class? Ha, more like 6th class.
Return to the first book of your bible. Doesn't say: "God created man in his image and likeness?" If it does, then god made gay and lesbian people too.
As for all the things the Bible says we shouldn't do or are sins. Do you eat shellfish? Do you shake the hands of women who are menstruating? (Would you ask women before you touched them??) Do you eat pork or play football on Sundays? You're breaking some of the other wacky rules of the Bible. Who decides which ones are okay to break?
I was hoping to see that you had some enlightened views, especially considering what part of town you are in. But for all your coolness, hipness and youth, you seem to have the same hang ups, narrow mindness, discomfort and discrimination like many other Christian churchs. Seems you are not all that cutting edge after all, huh?
Hey Zak,
Just shot you a reply on Facebook man. Hope to respond to your thoughts and concerns here soon.
Shaun
I agree with most of this. Can I get clarification on one point though? You said "homosexuality is not addressed by Jesus in the Gospels because it was not an issue that needed clarification for the culture he lived in". I was always under the impression that homosexuality was an issue back then, and frequently practiced in Rome. The island of "Lesbos' is in fact where the word lesbian comes from. I guess the issue of gay marriage was not an issue, as homosexuality was accepted, but not . Perhaps sexuality was so confused back then that Jesus addressed it as a whole, "do not lust, have orgies, commit adultery" etc. I guess it makes me think if homosexuality wasn't addressed by Jesus, how can we really know if it's a sin, if the 'acts' are committed between two committed people who are going to love each other in a God-ordained way? Heterosexual marriages are not based on 'sexual acts', but vows ordained by God.
I'm confused. If a sin is a sin than why can't homosexuals get married? You even stated you're a sinner, but still allowed to get married. Please clarify.
Also, the Bible does state in a few different verses against homosexual men, but it never once states women can not be lesbian- EVER! So, lesbians aren't sinning? Some of those verses are also in the same chapter of the Bible where it is also written if a man rapes an innocent woman than he must marry her and buy her from her father. Especially if she does not yell out for help.
And to state homosexuality did not take place during the days of Jesus is an ignorant lie. It was very much around. Maybe you should review both history books and the Bible before stating such a wrongful fact.
Also, what about the wealthy man who traveled many miles to have Jesus personally heal one of his servants? He could have sent someone else or just (and no offense but lets not kid ourselves it's true) he could have just bought a new one. It seems like there was a love relationship between the wealthy man and his personal young servant boy and what did Jesus do? He was overly impressed by his faith and healed him. I'm not one to ever put words in the Bible, but being a lesbian I'm so damn sick of the church not giving me equal rights yet expressing my sin is the same as theirs. Don't lie anymore!
I'm also sick and tired of living my life as a second class citizen in the eyes of the church and hope when my personal Judgement Day arrives God will have taken into account all the multiple occasions I have been cast out by the both society and the church.
Also, wasn't it the church that also highly preached against different races getting married? Now to no one's surprise they're back at it again preaching against gays getting married? Take a few more steps back in history and it was the church that preached in favor of slavery. Thank goodness they have released their claws on the ownership of humans.
And PS- I am no scientist so I am not able to argue well with born gay vs. being gay. However, I can speak on terms I am comfortable with and that is my personal experience. I had the greatest childhood and teenage years yet I have always been attractive to woman. No abuse in my past nor missing parents. I have the best parents ever and was raised in the Christian church. I would never choose this curse. Nor wish it on anyone.
Shaun – I disagree with you about same sex relationships being sinful, about the bible being clear in stating SS relationships are sinful when you throw original language and historical context into the mix (which you have to do if you are serious about this issue) and about people not being born gay. BUT – I do appreciate the way you appear to be sincere in listening to people who disagree with you .
Having said that I don't know if you realize how hurtful it is to talk about accepting LGBT people because their sin isn't worse than yours. You see, they realize they are sinners but not because they are LGBT. They don't believe or understand how their sexual orientation that they have no control over – that they didn't choose – that did not come to them because they were abused or neglected or any other thing – means they are a sinner.
(I am going to continue this in the next comment because your site is asking me to break up my comment into two parts as it is a little long)
To be honest, I don't even know if people like you and I should be discussing this issue since we are not gay and can never fully grasp what we are trying to talk about. I am amazed that people like Derek can stand to continue to engage in these conversations after all the hurtful things that have been done to LGBT people in the name of Christ. My heart resonates with the comments from Christian – his story is heartbreaking. My son is gay and I am sick that although he loves the Lord and grew up in the church he finds it difficult to stay interested in attending church when he sees his friend who is in a same sex relationship (not sexually active) be told he can't serve at the Welcome Center on Sunday morning but his sexually active single heterosexual friends are never disqualified from serving in any capacity. Sometimes he goes to church but he wouldn't dare try to become an active participant in the community because who knows what holier than thou layperson would complain to the staff and cause the poor pastor to have to break the news to him that he can't participate in whatever. The hypocrisy and double standard are outrageous. I truly believe that future generations will once again look back at the church in disappointment and wonder how we could have reconciled our attitudes and behavior with our claim to be followers of Jesus Christ.
I am amazed by the power of God in both my life and in everyone elses. I ran into this blog by google-ing Death of Autotune, for the gospel remix version (it is amazing, and anyone who likes the song and concept by Jay-Z, will LOVE the Gospel version). After spending a little time, if i were in ATL, i'd definently want to come to the Courageous Church and worship/serve there. It seems like a vibrant new type of worship experience. As far as what the church should do/how the church should respond to homosexuality; I am a Christian heterosexual male who has been STRUGGLING with homosexuality. I have a relationship with God, and have actively seeked God for healing, and he told me (paraphrased): this is spiritual warfare. I require holiness- and being good, is not good enough. I mean, yesterday, my pastor just preached: being tempted isn't a sin. But giving into the temptation is the fall, not being tempted. I have an annointing, and my temptation keeps me grounded and close to God.
I work in Theatre and Dance (i don't know any other profession where homosexuality is so…accepted, and expected,) and there and many beautiful young men. But as my pastor preached, you can only pick one flower. And more than that, i refuse to lay down my annointing; i refuse to lay down my relationship with God, to pursue a homosexual relationship. And with that said, i do not believe per-say that people are born gay, but naturally some people are attracted to stuff (people and otherwise) that they shouldn't. And, the pastor who said that when approaching homosexuality we should understand the purpose of sex, was right on. The purpose of sex is to procreate; yes there is a large expression of love in the process, but the purpose of sex is to make babies, and raise them into fine young men and women. I'm 18 (recently), and i actively ask God to kill my flesh daily, so that i can operate effectively in ministry.
To everyone reading this blog–God wants to heal you from whatever, and he wants you to work in the capacity that he has designed (ministry). Please Continue to seek God 1st. Put yourself 2nd.
Dear C. Graves – Is it wrong for an infertile couple to have sex? Is it wrong to have sex and use birth control? Is it wrong for women who have been through menopause or had an hysterectomy and can no longer reproduce to have sex? Saying the purpose of sex is to procreate and using that as a reason to believe that same sex relationships are wrong doesn't have a lot of credibility when you think about all the ways that Christians believe that sex is okay – even good – when procreation is not possible or desired. Also I would urge you to be cautious about saying that you don't believe people are born gay. Many sincere followers of Christ who have spent many years trying to understand their homosexuality would disagree with you. Maybe a more charitable and kind way would be for you to say you don't believe "you" were born gay – perhaps you have something in your own experience that makes you believe that.
Hi Shaun,
I may not have read far enough to see that it has been mentioned, but I think it's worth considering the difference between calling homosexuality a sin vs. calling homosexual behavior a sin. What do you think?
Michael J
Sorry you lost me. Homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin. Repeat that fifty times and you might have a chance of sincerely pastoring gay people. We are all sinners, but homosexuality is simply a sexual orientation, not a sin. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself for promoting this idea that leads to so much anguish and turn so many people from the church. You should read the United Church of Canada's witness on this subject.
Birds chirping…crickets cricking and yet still no response from Shaun.
I think the silence speaks volumes on Shaun's feelings about gays and lesbians.
Truth be told, who would want to be associated with any religion — particularly ones that either outwardly or covertly preach discrimination?
Who would Jesus shun?
Hey Zak,Thanks for your comment and your attempt, I suppose, to provoke me into a response.You are, though, way off in your conclusion about my lack of response. My 7 year old daughter was in a major accident recently. I have 5 kids. Do you have kids?Also, I just moved last week and do not have internet @ home yet. I am writing you from my phone now just to satisfy your disrespect.Also, I am a full-time grad student. Also, I pastor a growing church.Brother -I will write you an informed response soon. I actually don't even know what you're talking about. Did you make a comment previously?Shaun– Shaun KingLead Pastor, The Courageous ChurchWeb: http://www.Courageous.tvBlog: http://www.ShaunInTheCity.comPhone: 404.461.9850
From: IntenseDebate Notifications
Pastor Shaun made the mission of Courageous Church clear…Love God…Love People…Prove it. Loving God is honoring Him and His Word. His Word is the Holy Bible, and just like Pastor Shaun, I believe the Word of God is clear that homosexuality (or a homosexual act) is a sin. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (I Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV).
If we love people, we should prove it by sharing Biblical truths, so that they may be washed and made whole by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Dear Tarena:
The Bible says a lot of things–many of them plain insane by today's standards. Christians of all faiths seem to only apply the rules to themselves and others when it suits their needs. I bet many of the Bible's edicts you are guilty of not following. Do you touch pig on Sunday? East shellfish? Touch a woman when it's that time of the month? "Oh, those rules are in the old/new testament, so we don't follow them. We just follow the chapters and verse that let us hate gays!" Oh and calling gays a sin or homosexual acts a sin, is a form of discrimination and hate. Oh the irony of people of color finding some other groups to put down! Dr. King would not be impressed.
The Bible also says God made man in his image and likeness.
So God made me and he made me gay. I was born that way. No choice in the matter. Who would chose to be something that crazy religious people think it's okay to dismiss as a "sin" or a "sinner" as you so easily did.
Truth here. Seems that Christian enjoy having someone to look down on. People used the Bible to justify slavery, prohibit people of different races marrying… none of that is socially acceptable any more So who can Christians hate? Who can they marginalize? Who can they deny the basic civil rights to? Seems they have chosen the gays and lesbians.
I just find it very ironic that a church would open it's doors in the most gay and lesbian positive part of the city of Atlanta, and still spout such archaic, discriminatory beliefs.
"Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love."
— Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I totaly agree. This is a very and real topic that should be in the church, but alot of church's are affraid to touch it like the pastor said. Nothing should not be sugar coated in chruch. The world dose not sugar coat anything. Only the father up above can judge, I am nothing but flesh same as a gay person another flesh. The father has started something amazing. He has raised up a pastor who's not thinking or trying to fit The most high god in a box, but one who is going to think out side of the box. I thank the father for this amazing conformation he has sent me. The direction that i'm going in is the right. God bless
it also says in the old testimant it is an abomination to eat shell fish so why dont Christians follow that, or do people only choose to condemn the sins there not into, example im straight so ill just preach about the sin of homosexuality,it also says in the Bible divorce is a sin. BUT I DONT HERE ANY CHURCHES preaching abut that sin because everyone is getting divorced……………i thought the absolute worst sin would be murder u can never make ammends to someone once they are dead. but the unpardinable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ
Having read the blog and all the comments, I feel urged to add mine.
I am a male Christian from my childhood to present (25+ years). I have attraction for both men and women. I find that having suppressed my attraction for males for such a long time (and having limited exposure earlier) my inclinations towards males seem greater than towards women. Married. One child. Have had sex with females…and males.
Ok. So I grew up "knowing" that homosexuality is SIN. Yet in my experience, many of the men I saw having a great anointing from God (no doubt) were involved in a homosexual lifestyle/practices. Some of them are still alive today and still anointed. I myself have experienced great anointing by God even in my condition. While I am not in a homosexual relationship (and I have only tried that once) I am still lustful in that area. I still am addicted to porn – male porn in particular. And I am considering even as I write, to enter into a relationship with a male friend of mine.
I was never raped or abused in anyway as a child. I have read many articles that have tried to explain my attraction for men. One has said that when a woman have several sons, something about producing antigens to facilitate the male foetus occurs in her body. Hence, the later child (male) will have some amount on female hormones and have gay tendencies/lifestyle. Also, social theorists believe that earlier associations have much to do with behavioural patterns. So again, here am I, analyzing myself. No father-figure in the home, older brothers who were more grouped to themselves, I spent more time with my mother, my grandmother and the women folk at church. Hence, I guess I learned certain behaviours.
Well, after much praying and fasting, after a failed marriage, and many other issues, I am still gay. The interesting thing is that we (the Church, pastors like myself) preach that the blood of Jesus takes away all sin and renews us. We preach that the Holy Spirit regenerates us. Yet, I have struggled for many many years with this issue of being gay. And don't tell me now that my crying out to God was not genuine. Don't tell me that I have not honestly poured out my heart to God…even when I am having these feelings. Been there done that.
I have cleaned my hard drive of porn many times over, destroyed many DVD's, made resolves not to go back there, sought prayer, counseling……I am still gay. And here's the worst part. While struggling with these issues, I still have to preach against something that I believe (whether by upbringing or conviction) is a sin but still struggling with. As one earlier commentator said, no one would readily choose this way and suffer willingly, the abuse and scorn…and even the physical danger (especially in the place I live).
I believe that this gay issue is multi-faceted, and there is no ONE answer to it. I believe there is a physical aspect, a physiological, a social, and also a spiritual aspect to it. Listening to all the arguments here, and others I have listened to, many are plausible…on booth sides. Persons have raised many Biblical points that seem to show how we contradict ourselves. TRUE. Many have pointed to the love of God/Jesus that we need to show. TRUE! Easier to say than to do though. One thing I can unequivocally agree with is this: WE CANNOT CHANGE ANYONE…ONLY GOD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT CAN. Now, as to why He has not changed me and the many hundreds of thousands who have cried to Him so many times, is another question. Don't tell me that none of these people were genuine in their asking. I have seen young children who are not exposed to homosexuality but yet their behaviour reveals the direction they are headed…and they do.
You know, it;s funny…I have never met anyone who has been homosexual who can truly and honestly tell me that they were "healed" and have not even as much as thought much more desired to have an encounter. Not even a look.
Brother Shaun, you have been far more accommodating and humane than many others, in your responses and in the stance you take. For that I must commend you. We need so much more prayer and heavenly knowledge and wisdom to deal with this issue….it is NOT going away. And more agruments will be thrown out here, there, and everywhere.
Until one has been there, one can say whatever he/she will. It is the people who feel it who really know it.
P.S. In response to the argument of sex for procreation….what an absurd statement. There is enough Biblical text to show that sex was and is meant for pleasure also. So if sex is for procreation ONLY, after a young couple in their twenties have had the two or so children that they planned for, should they withhold sex for the rest of their lives….providing they live together for another 50 years? Ha!
Having read the blog and all the comments, I feel urged to add mine.
I am a male Christian from my childhood to present (25+ years). I have attraction for both men and women. I find that having suppressed my attraction for males for such a long time (and having limited exposure earlier) my inclinations towards males seem greater than towards women. Married. One child. Have had sex with females…and males.
Ok. So I grew up "knowing" that homosexuality is SIN. Yet in my experience, many of the men I saw having a great anointing from God (no doubt) were involved in a homosexual lifestyle/practices. Some of them are still alive today and still anointed. I myself have experienced great anointing by God even in my condition. While I am not in a homosexual relationship (and I have only tried that once) I am still lustful in that area. I still am addicted to porn – male porn in particular. And I am considering even as I write, to enter into a relationship with a male friend of mine.
I was never raped or abused in anyway as a child. I have read many articles that have tried to explain my attraction for men. One has said that when a woman have several sons, something about producing antigens to facilitate the male foetus occurs in her body. Hence, the later child (male) will have some amount on female hormones and have gay tendencies/lifestyle. Also, social theorists believe that earlier associations have much to do with behavioural patterns. So again, here am I, analyzing myself. No father-figure in the home, older brothers who were more grouped to themselves, I spent more time with my mother, my grandmother and the women folk at church. Hence, I guess I learned certain behaviours.
Well, after much praying and fasting, after a failed marriage, and many other issues, I am still gay. The interesting thing is that we (the Church, pastors like myself) preach that the blood of Jesus takes away all sin and renews us. We preach that the Holy Spirit regenerates us. Yet, I have struggled for many many years with this issue of being gay. And don't tell me now that my crying out to God was not genuine. Don't tell me that I have not honestly poured out my heart to God…even when I am having these feelings. Been there done that.
I have cleaned my hard drive of porn many times over, destroyed many DVD's, made resolves not to go back there, sought prayer, counseling……I am still gay. And here's the worst part. While struggling with these issues, I still have to preach against something that I believe (whether by upbringing or conviction) is a sin but still struggling with. As one earlier commentator said, no one would readily choose this way and suffer willingly, the abuse and scorn…and even the physical danger (especially in the place I live).
I believe that this gay issue is multi-faceted, and there is no ONE answer to it. I believe there is a physical aspect, a physiological, a social, and also a spiritual aspect to it. Listening to all the arguments here, and others I have listened to, many are plausible…on booth sides. Persons have raised many Biblical points that seem to show how we contradict ourselves. TRUE. Many have pointed to the love of God/Jesus that we need to show. TRUE! Easier to say than to do though. One thing I can unequivocally agree with is this: WE CANNOT CHANGE ANYONE…ONLY GOD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT CAN. Now, as to why He has not changed me and the many hundreds of thousands who have cried to Him so many times, is another question. Don't tell me that none of these people were genuine in their asking. I have seen young children who are not exposed to homosexuality but yet their behaviour reveals the direction they are headed…and they do.
You know, it;s funny…I have never met anyone who has been homosexual who can truly and honestly tell me that they were "healed" and have not even as much as thought much more desired to have an encounter. Not even a look.
Brother Shaun, you have been far more accommodating and humane than many others, in your responses and in the stance you take. For that I must commend you. We need so much more prayer and heavenly knowledge and wisdom to deal with this issue….it is NOT going away. And more agruments will be thrown out here, there, and everywhere.
Until one has been there, one can say whatever he/she will. It is the people who feel it who really know it.
P.S. In response to the argument of sex for procreation….what an absurd statement. There is enough Biblical text to show that sex was and is meant for pleasure also. So if sex is for procreation ONLY, after a young couple in their twenties have had the two or so children that they planned for, should they withhold sex for the rest of their lives….providing they live together for another 50 years? Ha!
I've recently written a new post concerning this after receiving a friend request on facebook. I was wondering if you could read it and shed any sort of light onto this topic from what you've learned as you continue to seek out, and work with the volunteers in your church. I remember reading this post when you first penned it. Just wondering if anything else has changed in your thinking for this topic, or if you've discovered anything else. Congrats on the AJC article. Your heart for ministry is surely impacting the people and city of Atlanta for God's Glory.
http://authentic-light.blogspot.com/2009/12/serio…
I'm sorry Shaun, but I don't find your stance on homosexuality courageous at all.
I would recommend the books "Jesus, The Bible, and Homosexuality" by Jack Rogers. Very well written and researched. I would also recommend "Love Is An Orientation" by Andrew Marin
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-R…
http://www.loveisanorientation.com/
Well, I'm really late to this discussion, huh.
Anyway, in reading it over, a few random things stood out to me. I'm not sure first of all why anyone would have an issue with cousin marriages. This is some sort of American cultural taboo (complete with tons of urban legend about mutations and birth defects resulting from cousin marriages) but it is pretty normal in most of the world…including many many couples in the Bible. Even if you want to stick to American laws and culture, the law in the US has no problem with 2nd cousin marriages. But that really doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand, does it. :)
So, back to the subject at hand, I'm always scratching my head when christians try to prove that people are not born homosexuals. It seems opposite to me of both science AND christian doctrine to teach that. Isn't a core tenet of christianity that all people are born sinners? So, shouldn't we ASSUME that people will be born predisposed to every sin under the sun, and that sin would be even genetic and part of our DNA? (After all, we inherited sin from Adam, right?)
So, people ARE born with predispositions towards rage and anger. People are born with addictive personalities (born alcoholics, as it were.) And people most certainly are born to be homosexuals.
The sooner we quit denying this fact, the sooner homosexuals and everyone else will recognize that we are speaking of something they know within themselves to be true – that this sin is part of their very nature, not a decision they are making. They are in bondage to it for it is who they are, at their very core… And THIS is where the gospel really has punch – THIS is where rebirth really means something. You can be BORN AGAIN. With a new nature! Yes, you were born a homosexual, and you are powerless to free yourself. God wants to make you a new person- not simply make you act like something you are not. This is the gospel! How glorious!
So, let's stop dancing around the issues and instead lets start preaching THE TRUTH! Men and women are powerless sinners, but THE TRUTH shall set them free! Free to live, free to have wholeness, free to have sexually sound and appropriate relationships in accordance with God's original design – man and woman. Oh – and free from addictions…free from rage….free from everything else condemned in God's laws and free to dance in His light! And I say, in an altogether appropriate and nonreligious sense – Hallelujah, man!
I agree with the commentor who says this is hardly courageous. You take society's old dislike of gay people and wrap it up with a smile. The you tapdance away Jesus' utter lack of comment on this issue which the religious right finds so fundamental to society. (And I have to doubt that you've read Daniel Helminiak's text What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality.)
At the end of the day…I'm gay…married (to my husband)…have four kids…and your entire argument assumes that God made a mistake when she gave me all these blessings.
To all my brothers and sisters who have also been given the ability to love people of the same gender…may I suggest a visit to the Metropolitan Community Church? It's a church that really welcomes and loves god's gay-lesbian children. And to the musician above who refuses to love a man as his heart is telling him to…cast off the oppression preached by Shaun and other haters, and find love in your life.