This week I am going to be addressing a series of critical questions that I receive regularly in my email inbox. I live in Downtown Atlanta and The Courageous Church is launching in the downtown/Midtown area of our city in 173 days. Since beginning our $20 and a Prayer campaign last week, the question I have received more than any other has been:
How does/will The Courageous Church respond to the issue of homosexuality?
While I think all churches need a very clear, nuanced answer to this question, it is doubly important that a church that claims to be courageous and is located in the area of our city with the largest population of GLBT men and women have a clarified approach to the topic and not simply pretend like it doesn’t exist.
If you get a chance to check out our website @ www.Courageous.tv and read some of our guiding questions and values, you will better understand where I will be coming from. Feel free to leave your comments and questions.
Five distinctive things about our church will guide us in our answer to this question.
- Our mission as a church is to Build Courageous Followers of Jesus that Love God, Love People, and Prove It. (Homosexual men and women are still people.)
- The first guiding question of our church is – What Did Jesus Do? (Jesus loved all people – particularly outcasts – while simultaneously calling them to a higher standard of living)
- The second guiding question of our church is – What Does the Bible Say? (I feel pretty strongly that the Bible is clear on the issue of homosexuality.)
- Our church feels called to take a stand for issues and people that others have forgotten about or too afraid to touch. (Homosexuality is one of those issues in our culture that most churches are afraid to touch with grace and intelligence.)
- While the issue of homosexuality is relatively important, it will not become a distraction from our mission and from issues that we deem to be in critical need of attention – like salvation, the world hunger crisis and slavery.
Here are my thoughts:
It is my deepest desire that ALL PEOPLE feel welcomed and loved as a part of our church – including homosexual men and women. We are fleshing out what that really means and how we prove that we love all people and not just say that we love all people. This is the benefit of being a church plant that still has time to create new culture before launching.
While we can debate it until the cows come home, it is my strong belief that the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus did not address the issue of homosexuality in the Gospels because it was not an issue in need of clarification for the culture He lived in.
I do not believe that all gay people are born that way and have had enough conversations and counseling sessions with gay men and women to know that some people become gay over time. I also believe that some people are born with a genetic propensity to be gay that is hard or nearly impossible to overcome. I have seen young children (that were not abused or "exposed" to homosexuality) that seem to have major issues, sometimes biological, with gender confusion, etc. It’s real.
With that said, I ultimately view homosexuality as one sin in a world full of sin. My job is to love sinners and build them into courageous folowers of Jesus that Love God, Love People, and Prove It. I am a sinner. My sin is not homosexuality, but I have struggled with pornography and had a period in my life where I struggled with exaggeration and honesty in the name of status and comfort. These things can lead to our undoing as well.
I would not ordain or marry any men or women who have what I view as any obvious issues of sin, particularly if they are not trying to overcome this sin. The challenge is, though, that this immediately isolates gay folk that can go down the street to the church that embraces them and does not even view their homosexuality as a sin.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, insights, and criticisms on my thoughts. Let the conversation begin…
{ 68 comments… read them below or add one }
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I work in Theatre and Dance (i don't know any other profession where homosexuality is so…accepted, and expected,) and there and many beautiful young men. But as my pastor preached, you can only pick one flower. And more than that, i refuse to lay down my annointing; i refuse to lay down my relationship with God, to pursue a homosexual relationship. And with that said, i do not believe per-say that people are born gay, but naturally some people are attracted to stuff (people and otherwise) that they shouldn't. And, the pastor who said that when approaching homosexuality we should understand the purpose of sex, was right on. The purpose of sex is to procreate; yes there is a large expression of love in the process, but the purpose of sex is to make babies, and raise them into fine young men and women. I'm 18 (recently), and i actively ask God to kill my flesh daily, so that i can operate effectively in ministry.
To everyone reading this blog–God wants to heal you from whatever, and he wants you to work in the capacity that he has designed (ministry). Please Continue to seek God 1st. Put yourself 2nd.
Dear C. Graves – Is it wrong for an infertile couple to have sex? Is it wrong to have sex and use birth control? Is it wrong for women who have been through menopause or had an hysterectomy and can no longer reproduce to have sex? Saying the purpose of sex is to procreate and using that as a reason to believe that same sex relationships are wrong doesn't have a lot of credibility when you think about all the ways that Christians believe that sex is okay – even good – when procreation is not possible or desired. Also I would urge you to be cautious about saying that you don't believe people are born gay. Many sincere followers of Christ who have spent many years trying to understand their homosexuality would disagree with you. Maybe a more charitable and kind way would be for you to say you don't believe "you" were born gay – perhaps you have something in your own experience that makes you believe that.
Hi Shaun,
I may not have read far enough to see that it has been mentioned, but I think it's worth considering the difference between calling homosexuality a sin vs. calling homosexual behavior a sin. What do you think?
Michael J
Sorry you lost me. Homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin. Repeat that fifty times and you might have a chance of sincerely pastoring gay people. We are all sinners, but homosexuality is simply a sexual orientation, not a sin. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself for promoting this idea that leads to so much anguish and turn so many people from the church. You should read the United Church of Canada's witness on this subject.
Birds chirping…crickets cricking and yet still no response from Shaun.
I think the silence speaks volumes on Shaun's feelings about gays and lesbians.
Truth be told, who would want to be associated with any religion — particularly ones that either outwardly or covertly preach discrimination?
Who would Jesus shun?
Hey Zak,Thanks for your comment and your attempt, I suppose, to provoke me into a response.You are, though, way off in your conclusion about my lack of response. My 7 year old daughter was in a major accident recently. I have 5 kids. Do you have kids?Also, I just moved last week and do not have internet @ home yet. I am writing you from my phone now just to satisfy your disrespect.Also, I am a full-time grad student. Also, I pastor a growing church.Brother -I will write you an informed response soon. I actually don't even know what you're talking about. Did you make a comment previously?Shaun– Shaun KingLead Pastor, The Courageous ChurchWeb: http://www.Courageous.tvBlog: http://www.ShaunInTheCity.comPhone: 404.461.9850
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Pastor Shaun made the mission of Courageous Church clear…Love God…Love People…Prove it. Loving God is honoring Him and His Word. His Word is the Holy Bible, and just like Pastor Shaun, I believe the Word of God is clear that homosexuality (or a homosexual act) is a sin. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (I Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV).
If we love people, we should prove it by sharing Biblical truths, so that they may be washed and made whole by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Dear Tarena:
The Bible says a lot of things–many of them plain insane by today's standards. Christians of all faiths seem to only apply the rules to themselves and others when it suits their needs. I bet many of the Bible's edicts you are guilty of not following. Do you touch pig on Sunday? East shellfish? Touch a woman when it's that time of the month? "Oh, those rules are in the old/new testament, so we don't follow them. We just follow the chapters and verse that let us hate gays!" Oh and calling gays a sin or homosexual acts a sin, is a form of discrimination and hate. Oh the irony of people of color finding some other groups to put down! Dr. King would not be impressed.
The Bible also says God made man in his image and likeness.
So God made me and he made me gay. I was born that way. No choice in the matter. Who would chose to be something that crazy religious people think it's okay to dismiss as a "sin" or a "sinner" as you so easily did.
Truth here. Seems that Christian enjoy having someone to look down on. People used the Bible to justify slavery, prohibit people of different races marrying… none of that is socially acceptable any more So who can Christians hate? Who can they marginalize? Who can they deny the basic civil rights to? Seems they have chosen the gays and lesbians.
I just find it very ironic that a church would open it's doors in the most gay and lesbian positive part of the city of Atlanta, and still spout such archaic, discriminatory beliefs.
"Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love."
— Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
it also says in the old testimant it is an abomination to eat shell fish so why dont Christians follow that, or do people only choose to condemn the sins there not into, example im straight so ill just preach about the sin of homosexuality,it also says in the Bible divorce is a sin. BUT I DONT HERE ANY CHURCHES preaching abut that sin because everyone is getting divorced……………i thought the absolute worst sin would be murder u can never make ammends to someone once they are dead. but the unpardinable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ
Having read the blog and all the comments, I feel urged to add mine.
I am a male Christian from my childhood to present (25+ years). I have attraction for both men and women. I find that having suppressed my attraction for males for such a long time (and having limited exposure earlier) my inclinations towards males seem greater than towards women. Married. One child. Have had sex with females…and males.
Ok. So I grew up "knowing" that homosexuality is SIN. Yet in my experience, many of the men I saw having a great anointing from God (no doubt) were involved in a homosexual lifestyle/practices. Some of them are still alive today and still anointed. I myself have experienced great anointing by God even in my condition. While I am not in a homosexual relationship (and I have only tried that once) I am still lustful in that area. I still am addicted to porn – male porn in particular. And I am considering even as I write, to enter into a relationship with a male friend of mine.
I was never raped or abused in anyway as a child. I have read many articles that have tried to explain my attraction for men. One has said that when a woman have several sons, something about producing antigens to facilitate the male foetus occurs in her body. Hence, the later child (male) will have some amount on female hormones and have gay tendencies/lifestyle. Also, social theorists believe that earlier associations have much to do with behavioural patterns. So again, here am I, analyzing myself. No father-figure in the home, older brothers who were more grouped to themselves, I spent more time with my mother, my grandmother and the women folk at church. Hence, I guess I learned certain behaviours.
Well, after much praying and fasting, after a failed marriage, and many other issues, I am still gay. The interesting thing is that we (the Church, pastors like myself) preach that the blood of Jesus takes away all sin and renews us. We preach that the Holy Spirit regenerates us. Yet, I have struggled for many many years with this issue of being gay. And don't tell me now that my crying out to God was not genuine. Don't tell me that I have not honestly poured out my heart to God…even when I am having these feelings. Been there done that.
I have cleaned my hard drive of porn many times over, destroyed many DVD's, made resolves not to go back there, sought prayer, counseling……I am still gay. And here's the worst part. While struggling with these issues, I still have to preach against something that I believe (whether by upbringing or conviction) is a sin but still struggling with. As one earlier commentator said, no one would readily choose this way and suffer willingly, the abuse and scorn…and even the physical danger (especially in the place I live).
I believe that this gay issue is multi-faceted, and there is no ONE answer to it. I believe there is a physical aspect, a physiological, a social, and also a spiritual aspect to it. Listening to all the arguments here, and others I have listened to, many are plausible…on booth sides. Persons have raised many Biblical points that seem to show how we contradict ourselves. TRUE. Many have pointed to the love of God/Jesus that we need to show. TRUE! Easier to say than to do though. One thing I can unequivocally agree with is this: WE CANNOT CHANGE ANYONE…ONLY GOD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT CAN. Now, as to why He has not changed me and the many hundreds of thousands who have cried to Him so many times, is another question. Don't tell me that none of these people were genuine in their asking. I have seen young children who are not exposed to homosexuality but yet their behaviour reveals the direction they are headed…and they do.
You know, it;s funny…I have never met anyone who has been homosexual who can truly and honestly tell me that they were "healed" and have not even as much as thought much more desired to have an encounter. Not even a look.
Brother Shaun, you have been far more accommodating and humane than many others, in your responses and in the stance you take. For that I must commend you. We need so much more prayer and heavenly knowledge and wisdom to deal with this issue….it is NOT going away. And more agruments will be thrown out here, there, and everywhere.
Until one has been there, one can say whatever he/she will. It is the people who feel it who really know it.
P.S. In response to the argument of sex for procreation….what an absurd statement. There is enough Biblical text to show that sex was and is meant for pleasure also. So if sex is for procreation ONLY, after a young couple in their twenties have had the two or so children that they planned for, should they withhold sex for the rest of their lives….providing they live together for another 50 years? Ha!
Having read the blog and all the comments, I feel urged to add mine.
I am a male Christian from my childhood to present (25+ years). I have attraction for both men and women. I find that having suppressed my attraction for males for such a long time (and having limited exposure earlier) my inclinations towards males seem greater than towards women. Married. One child. Have had sex with females…and males.
Ok. So I grew up "knowing" that homosexuality is SIN. Yet in my experience, many of the men I saw having a great anointing from God (no doubt) were involved in a homosexual lifestyle/practices. Some of them are still alive today and still anointed. I myself have experienced great anointing by God even in my condition. While I am not in a homosexual relationship (and I have only tried that once) I am still lustful in that area. I still am addicted to porn – male porn in particular. And I am considering even as I write, to enter into a relationship with a male friend of mine.
I was never raped or abused in anyway as a child. I have read many articles that have tried to explain my attraction for men. One has said that when a woman have several sons, something about producing antigens to facilitate the male foetus occurs in her body. Hence, the later child (male) will have some amount on female hormones and have gay tendencies/lifestyle. Also, social theorists believe that earlier associations have much to do with behavioural patterns. So again, here am I, analyzing myself. No father-figure in the home, older brothers who were more grouped to themselves, I spent more time with my mother, my grandmother and the women folk at church. Hence, I guess I learned certain behaviours.
Well, after much praying and fasting, after a failed marriage, and many other issues, I am still gay. The interesting thing is that we (the Church, pastors like myself) preach that the blood of Jesus takes away all sin and renews us. We preach that the Holy Spirit regenerates us. Yet, I have struggled for many many years with this issue of being gay. And don't tell me now that my crying out to God was not genuine. Don't tell me that I have not honestly poured out my heart to God…even when I am having these feelings. Been there done that.
I have cleaned my hard drive of porn many times over, destroyed many DVD's, made resolves not to go back there, sought prayer, counseling……I am still gay. And here's the worst part. While struggling with these issues, I still have to preach against something that I believe (whether by upbringing or conviction) is a sin but still struggling with. As one earlier commentator said, no one would readily choose this way and suffer willingly, the abuse and scorn…and even the physical danger (especially in the place I live).
I believe that this gay issue is multi-faceted, and there is no ONE answer to it. I believe there is a physical aspect, a physiological, a social, and also a spiritual aspect to it. Listening to all the arguments here, and others I have listened to, many are plausible…on booth sides. Persons have raised many Biblical points that seem to show how we contradict ourselves. TRUE. Many have pointed to the love of God/Jesus that we need to show. TRUE! Easier to say than to do though. One thing I can unequivocally agree with is this: WE CANNOT CHANGE ANYONE…ONLY GOD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT CAN. Now, as to why He has not changed me and the many hundreds of thousands who have cried to Him so many times, is another question. Don't tell me that none of these people were genuine in their asking. I have seen young children who are not exposed to homosexuality but yet their behaviour reveals the direction they are headed…and they do.
You know, it;s funny…I have never met anyone who has been homosexual who can truly and honestly tell me that they were "healed" and have not even as much as thought much more desired to have an encounter. Not even a look.
Brother Shaun, you have been far more accommodating and humane than many others, in your responses and in the stance you take. For that I must commend you. We need so much more prayer and heavenly knowledge and wisdom to deal with this issue….it is NOT going away. And more agruments will be thrown out here, there, and everywhere.
Until one has been there, one can say whatever he/she will. It is the people who feel it who really know it.
P.S. In response to the argument of sex for procreation….what an absurd statement. There is enough Biblical text to show that sex was and is meant for pleasure also. So if sex is for procreation ONLY, after a young couple in their twenties have had the two or so children that they planned for, should they withhold sex for the rest of their lives….providing they live together for another 50 years? Ha!
I've recently written a new post concerning this after receiving a friend request on facebook. I was wondering if you could read it and shed any sort of light onto this topic from what you've learned as you continue to seek out, and work with the volunteers in your church. I remember reading this post when you first penned it. Just wondering if anything else has changed in your thinking for this topic, or if you've discovered anything else. Congrats on the AJC article. Your heart for ministry is surely impacting the people and city of Atlanta for God's Glory.
http://authentic-light.blogspot.com/2009/12/serio...
I'm sorry Shaun, but I don't find your stance on homosexuality courageous at all.
I would recommend the books "Jesus, The Bible, and Homosexuality" by Jack Rogers. Very well written and researched. I would also recommend "Love Is An Orientation" by Andrew Marin
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-R...
http://www.loveisanorientation.com/
Well, I'm really late to this discussion, huh.
Anyway, in reading it over, a few random things stood out to me. I'm not sure first of all why anyone would have an issue with cousin marriages. This is some sort of American cultural taboo (complete with tons of urban legend about mutations and birth defects resulting from cousin marriages) but it is pretty normal in most of the world…including many many couples in the Bible. Even if you want to stick to American laws and culture, the law in the US has no problem with 2nd cousin marriages. But that really doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand, does it. :)
So, back to the subject at hand, I'm always scratching my head when christians try to prove that people are not born homosexuals. It seems opposite to me of both science AND christian doctrine to teach that. Isn't a core tenet of christianity that all people are born sinners? So, shouldn't we ASSUME that people will be born predisposed to every sin under the sun, and that sin would be even genetic and part of our DNA? (After all, we inherited sin from Adam, right?)
So, people ARE born with predispositions towards rage and anger. People are born with addictive personalities (born alcoholics, as it were.) And people most certainly are born to be homosexuals.
The sooner we quit denying this fact, the sooner homosexuals and everyone else will recognize that we are speaking of something they know within themselves to be true – that this sin is part of their very nature, not a decision they are making. They are in bondage to it for it is who they are, at their very core… And THIS is where the gospel really has punch – THIS is where rebirth really means something. You can be BORN AGAIN. With a new nature! Yes, you were born a homosexual, and you are powerless to free yourself. God wants to make you a new person- not simply make you act like something you are not. This is the gospel! How glorious!
So, let's stop dancing around the issues and instead lets start preaching THE TRUTH! Men and women are powerless sinners, but THE TRUTH shall set them free! Free to live, free to have wholeness, free to have sexually sound and appropriate relationships in accordance with God's original design – man and woman. Oh – and free from addictions…free from rage….free from everything else condemned in God's laws and free to dance in His light! And I say, in an altogether appropriate and nonreligious sense – Hallelujah, man!
I agree with the commentor who says this is hardly courageous. You take society's old dislike of gay people and wrap it up with a smile. The you tapdance away Jesus' utter lack of comment on this issue which the religious right finds so fundamental to society. (And I have to doubt that you've read Daniel Helminiak's text What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality.)
At the end of the day…I'm gay…married (to my husband)…have four kids…and your entire argument assumes that God made a mistake when she gave me all these blessings.
To all my brothers and sisters who have also been given the ability to love people of the same gender…may I suggest a visit to the Metropolitan Community Church? It's a church that really welcomes and loves god's gay-lesbian children. And to the musician above who refuses to love a man as his heart is telling him to…cast off the oppression preached by Shaun and other haters, and find love in your life.
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